Re-denomination... A very real possibility and it's nothing to be afraid of!!

crawdaddy2x22 wrote:There has been something bothering me for awhile and I mean this with all do respect, but I have never been comfortable asking god to make me rich. I've asked him for many things including a pony when I was 6. I feel god provides us with what we need and in a nut shell I question if instant wealth is a good thing. Don't get me wrong I dream of it! I see alot of posts that state that this is gods will as their only bases of this happening or not happening. I guess what I'm saying is there were good reasons I didnt get my pony.

There is no short answer. The fact is that neither poverty nor prosperity theory is correct. What we find in God's word is what I call a "Stewardship Theology." That is if you use what He provides wisely, basing your decisions upon what I call the rule of love, He will bless you and not just provide your needs, but provide them according to His riches and glory. I am overly simplifying this for here, but if you want more info, I have some teachings on line on a blog. You can start here: http://watchersonthewall.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/biblical-finances-part-1/ There are in total 4 parts, and still they only scratch the surface. Finances and prosperity is the most talked about subject in the bible, so rest assured it must be important to God.

FoxyRoxy wrote:I think Okie has a great, big heart and wants only the best for everybody. I don't believe for a minute that he would be intentionally lying. I'm sure he's just as befuddled and disappointed as the rest of us that things haven't worked out the way he believed they would. I respect and appreciate him. More than anything, though, I'd like to see him (or ANY of the "gurus") be right just ONCE -- that's all we need!

Exactly! Foxy - This topic was meant to educate people that a Re-denomination isn't a bad thing, it's just not a windfall... Anyway, I hope it didn't depress you too much and you decide to stick around for a while cause we miss you when your away...


CJ

Thanks kevin. You just see good people ruined by money like the lottery winners and I just wonder how many of us are really ready for something like this. I've read all the great stuff this site has provided, but you wonder how much of that will sink in when and if this happens.

CaptnJerry wrote:

FoxyRoxy wrote:I think Okie has a great, big heart and wants only the best for everybody. I don't believe for a minute that he would be intentionally lying. I'm sure he's just as befuddled and disappointed as the rest of us that things haven't worked out the way he believed they would. I respect and appreciate him. More than anything, though, I'd like to see him (or ANY of the "gurus") be right just ONCE -- that's all we need!

Exactly! Foxy - This topic was meant to educate people that a Re-denomination isn't a bad thing, it's just not a windfall... Anyway, I hope it didn't depress you too much and you decide to stick around for a while cause we miss you when your away...


CJ

Aw, thanks CJ. Okay. I'll stick around just for you!

Yep like I say in one of the posts (I think) it's all His, don't you think He should have a say, a very big say, in what you do with it?" 8)

Kevind53 wrote:Yep like I say in one of the posts (I think) it's all His, don't you think He should have a say, a very big say, in what you do with it?" 8)

I believe He should definitely have a very big say in what I do with my money, but I have to HAVE it, first. That's why I AM praying hard to be rich, and I don't feel the least bit guilty!!!

FoxyRoxy wrote:

Kevind53 wrote:Yep like I say in one of the posts (I think) it's all His, don't you think He should have a say, a very big say, in what you do with it?" 8)

I believe He should definitely have a very big say in what I do with my money, but I have to HAVE it, first. That's why I AM praying hard to be rich, and I don't feel the least bit guilty!!!

The things He has shown my wife and I we are to do, we have to be rich to do them ... sooo... we pray from there.

Good thread. Needs a bump.

Wow, read this article from today and go back up and read my thought on the trigger of this event...

العبطان يدعو البنك المركزي الى وضع دراسة لرفع سعر الدينار أمام الدولار Alabtan calls for the central bank to a study to raise the price of the dinar against the dollar
بتاريخ : الجمعة 27-01-2012 09:09 صباحا On: Friday 1/27/2012 9:09

بغداد(الاخبارية)..دعا عضو لجنة الطاقة والاستثمار البرلمانية النائب عن/التحالف الوطني/عبدالحسين العبطان الى رفع سعر الدينار العراقي مقابل الدولار لتحسين الواقع المعيشي للفرد. Baghdad (news) .. called a member of the Committee on Energy and Investment parliamentary MP / National Alliance / Hussain Alabtan to raise the price of the Iraqi dinar against the dollar to improve the living conditions of the individual. وقال العبطان في تصريح(للوكالة الاخبارية للانباء)اليوم الخميس: على البنك المركزي القيام بدراسة لرفع نسبة الدينار العراقي مقابل الدولار والعملة الأجنبية والتي تزيد عن (60)مليار دولار. Alabtan said in a statement (the Agency news) on Thursday the central bank to do a study to raise the proportion of the Iraqi dinar against the dollar and foreign currency in excess of (60) billion dollars. وأشار العبطان الى: أن الدينار العراقي يراوح مكانه منذ أربعة سنوات منذ أن كان الاحتياطي النقدي (20) مليار دولار ولحد الآن. The Alabtan to: that the Iraqi dinar at a standstill for four years since he was a cash reserve (20) billion dollars so far. وأكد العبطان: أن رفع سعر الدينار ليصل الى (1000)دينار مقابل الدولار مناسب في الوقت الحاضر ليزيد الإنعاش الاقتصادي والواقع المعيشي للفرد ويعيد مكانته المتميزة بين الدول. The Alabtan: to raise the price of the dinar up to (1000) dinars to the dollar at the present time suitable for economic recovery and increases the reality of living of the individual and restore its distinguished position among nations. هذا ويذكر أن البنك المركزي أكد على أن رفع قيمة الدينار العراقي بنسبة 3.4% والتي قد تبدو للوهلة الأولى نسبة متدنية رغم أنها في حقيقة الأمر تشكّل قيمة نقدية كبيرة ضمن عمليات التسوية المالية الكبيرة بين البنوك" أن هذا الرفع "يبعث برسالة قوية تؤكد قوة وثبات العملة الوطنية والمستقبل الواعد للاقتصاد العراقي" ويبدد جميع المخاوف من إمكانية حصول تدهور للأخير، بحسب تعبيره./انتهى/22.ي.ن/ This is noteworthy that the central bank stressed that raising the value of Iraqi dinar by 3.4%, which may seem at first glance a low rate, although it is in fact a monetary value large part of the financial settlement large inter-bank "that this lifting" sends a strong message confirms the strength and stability of the currency national and the promising future of the Iraqi economy "and dispel all fears of the possibility of a deterioration of the latter, as he put it. / End / 22. j. n /

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ikhnews.com%2Fnews.php%3Faction%3Dview%26id%3D31246

CJ

CaptnJerry wrote:

FoxyRoxy wrote:I think Okie has a great, big heart and wants only the best for everybody. I don't believe for a minute that he would be intentionally lying. I'm sure he's just as befuddled and disappointed as the rest of us that things haven't worked out the way he believed they would. I respect and appreciate him. More than anything, though, I'd like to see him (or ANY of the "gurus") be right just ONCE -- that's all we need!

Exactly! Foxy - This topic was meant to educate people that a Re-denomination isn't a bad thing, it's just not a windfall... Anyway, I hope it didn't depress you too much and you decide to stick around for a while cause we miss you when your away...


CJ

cj is your real name sheila ?

CaptnJerry wrote:Wow, read this article from today and go back up and read my thought on the trigger of this event...

العبطان يدعو البنك المركزي الى وضع دراسة لرفع سعر الدينار أمام الدولار Alabtan calls for the central bank to a study to raise the price of the dinar against the dollar
بتاريخ : الجمعة 27-01-2012 09:09 صباحا On: Friday 1/27/2012 9:09

بغداد(الاخبارية)..دعا عضو لجنة الطاقة والاستثمار البرلمانية النائب عن/التحالف الوطني/عبدالحسين العبطان الى رفع سعر الدينار العراقي مقابل الدولار لتحسين الواقع المعيشي للفرد. Baghdad (news) .. called a member of the Committee on Energy and Investment parliamentary MP / National Alliance / Hussain Alabtan to raise the price of the Iraqi dinar against the dollar to improve the living conditions of the individual. وقال العبطان في تصريح(للوكالة الاخبارية للانباء)اليوم الخميس: على البنك المركزي القيام بدراسة لرفع نسبة الدينار العراقي مقابل الدولار والعملة الأجنبية والتي تزيد عن (60)مليار دولار. Alabtan said in a statement (the Agency news) on Thursday the central bank to do a study to raise the proportion of the Iraqi dinar against the dollar and foreign currency in excess of (60) billion dollars. وأشار العبطان الى: أن الدينار العراقي يراوح مكانه منذ أربعة سنوات منذ أن كان الاحتياطي النقدي (20) مليار دولار ولحد الآن. The Alabtan to: that the Iraqi dinar at a standstill for four years since he was a cash reserve (20) billion dollars so far. وأكد العبطان: أن رفع سعر الدينار ليصل الى (1000)دينار مقابل الدولار مناسب في الوقت الحاضر ليزيد الإنعاش الاقتصادي والواقع المعيشي للفرد ويعيد مكانته المتميزة بين الدول. The Alabtan: to raise the price of the dinar up to (1000) dinars to the dollar at the present time suitable for economic recovery and increases the reality of living of the individual and restore its distinguished position among nations. هذا ويذكر أن البنك المركزي أكد على أن رفع قيمة الدينار العراقي بنسبة 3.4% والتي قد تبدو للوهلة الأولى نسبة متدنية رغم أنها في حقيقة الأمر تشكّل قيمة نقدية كبيرة ضمن عمليات التسوية المالية الكبيرة بين البنوك" أن هذا الرفع "يبعث برسالة قوية تؤكد قوة وثبات العملة الوطنية والمستقبل الواعد للاقتصاد العراقي" ويبدد جميع المخاوف من إمكانية حصول تدهور للأخير، بحسب تعبيره./انتهى/22.ي.ن/ This is noteworthy that the central bank stressed that raising the value of Iraqi dinar by 3.4%, which may seem at first glance a low rate, although it is in fact a monetary value large part of the financial settlement large inter-bank "that this lifting" sends a strong message confirms the strength and stability of the currency national and the promising future of the Iraqi economy "and dispel all fears of the possibility of a deterioration of the latter, as he put it. / End / 22. j. n /

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ikhnews.com%2Fnews.php%3Faction%3Dview%26id%3D31246

CJ

what are you trying to say ? please

Geezer - Make up your own mind, but it was just shocking to me...

What I wrote in the Re-Denomination article

When will it happen?

Iraq has been stating 2013.
I personally feel we will see all of this happen once the the exchange
rate drops down to 1000 IQD - 1 USD. I feel that will be the trigger to
release the lower denoms at the 1 IQD - 1 USD rate... Hence the razing
of the 000's... 1 OD (old dinar) = .001 USD and 1 ND (new dinar) = 1 USD
which will fall in line with what Iraq has been saying 200K OD = 200
ND... It will initially be a 1-1 exchange of ND to USD to de-dollarize
or pull the USD out of circulation and slowly appreciate up to be
somewhere around the Kuwaiti dinar ($3.69 right now I think). Which that
should pretty much triple or quadruple the return on your investment,
it just won't be the windfall millions that "Those who shall remain
namless" are pumping. The only negative thing or I should say downside
is that it won't happen overnight, it will be a while, possibly a few
more years before it gets there. It may take 2 or more years to get
there, but I feel it will! Remember that this is a long term investment
and keep the faith... JMHO


Today's article from Iraq...

The Alabtan: to raise the price of the dinar
up to (1000) dinars to the dollar at the present time suitable for
economic recovery and increases the reality of living of the individual
and restore its distinguished position among nations.

It may mean nothing, it may mean everything... I just couldn't believe reading the figures he was calling for...

CJ

I've been preaching a post lop rv range of 3 to $1 for so long it makes my neck hurt!! I hate to be one to gloat, but.......no I don't. I am a gloater!!


mffma mffma mmoo mmoo

re-denomination then rv only benefits those with billions of Dinar. I can't help anyone with 100 extra dollars. I know that the tides of change are coming for God's children and it isn't going to be a gentle breeze. Don't worry about any rabbits being harmed people. We will see the transfer of wealth that was prophesized.

LookingAtTheHeavens wrote:re-denomination then rv only benefits those with billions of Dinar. I can't help anyone with 100 extra dollars. I know that the tides of change are coming for God's children and it isn't going to be a gentle breeze. Don't worry about any rabbits being harmed people. We will see the transfer of wealth that was prophesized.

Ok...I'll bite: Where can I read a prophesy of a transfer of wealth in the Bible?

bigdaddytim wrote:

LookingAtTheHeavens wrote:re-denomination then rv only benefits those with billions of Dinar. I can't help anyone with 100 extra dollars. I know that the tides of change are coming for God's children and it isn't going to be a gentle breeze. Don't worry about any rabbits being harmed people. We will see the transfer of wealth that was prophesized.

Ok...I'll bite: Where can I read a prophesy of a transfer of wealth in the Bible?

Well Proverbs 13:22 A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children, but the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

The Exodus from Egypt is a good example.

Oh yeah Kevin, that has IQD RV written all over it.......NOT.

It is more about the end Times transfer of wealth ...from the hoarded riches of the ungodly being bestowed upon God's children.

Google end times transfer of wealth. I can not copy paste on my I pad

http://www.whattimeitis.org/comingevents/wealthofsinner.htm

http://www.worldchristians.org/ske/ske-64.htm

Yay, I learned how to do it.

I guess I am an old school "Revelationist". New and old don't line up with this thought process. But, I think we should head this conversation to 2 before we get into trouble.

Is there a strong biblical basis for a transfer of wealth to accomplish Kingdom purposes? Yes. Is the IQD mentioned? Of course not. Neither are helicopters, but if they were I imagine a person from biblical times would describe an attack chopper as something like a giant locust with fire coming from it's mouth ... Oh wait, they did (perhaps.) I have heard many say the US will not be around at the end because it was not mentioned in Daniel or Revelation. But perhaps, just perhaps, could it be the wilderness in Rev 12? I don't know, do you?

The fact is that not everything will necessarily be found in the Bible, although the principles will be and those are inviolate. Thus the greatest commandment is and will always be "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength. Anything that gets in the way of that is sin. However because something is not specifically mentioned in the Word does not invalidate it. The question then is does it line up with the principles found in Scripture? If yes, the next step is to present it to the Lord, and ask Him to show you if it is of Him. Then trust that He will answer you.

The last verse of John's Gospel tells us: "And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen." (Jn 21:25) "Even the world itself could not contain the books" ... how can we then assume because something is not in the Word, it is not of God. Perhaps that is why before Jesus left He promised: "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."(Jn 16:13) Selah

OOM 2, huh?

Another article out yesterday that again puts it in black and white that this is coming...

Abtan: Delete the zeros dinar a bold step and its impact will be greater if placed within the plan
الأربعاء, 01 شباط/فبراير 2012 18:19 Wednesday, February 1, 2012 18:19






{بغداد : الفرات نيوز} اشاد النائب عن كتلة المواطن عبدالحسين عبطان، بخطوات البنك المركزي لحذف الاصفار من الدينار العراقي، مشيرا الى ان هذه الخطوات تكون تأثيرها اكبر على الاقتصاد العراقي في حال وضعها ضمن خطة محكمة. {Baghdad} Euphrates News praised the MP for the mass of the citizen Hussain Abtan, the central bank steps to delete the zeros of the Iraqi dinar, pointing out that these steps be a greater impact on the Iraqi economy in the event of a court established within the plan.


وقال عبطان، في تصريح لوكالة {الفرات نيوز} ان "خطوات البنك المركزي بازالة الاصفار من الدينار العراقية جريئة ومن شأنها رفع قيمة صرف هذا الدينار مقابل الدولار الامريكي". Abtan said in a statement to the Euphrates News Agency {} that "the central bank steps to remove the zeros of the Iraqi dinar, a bold and would raise the exchange value of the dinar against the U.S. dollar."


ويعمل العراق على تنفيذ مشروع حذف الاصفار من العملة لتسهيل التعاملات المالية في البلاد مع انفتاح البلاد على الاسواق العالمية ومحاولة جذب رؤوس الأموال والمستثمرين للمساهمة في الجهود الحكومية لإعادة إعمار البنية التحتية المتهالكة نتيجة عقود من الحروب والحصار . Iraq is working on a project to delete the zeros from the currency to facilitate financial transactions in the country with the country's openness to international markets and try to attract capital and investors to contribute to government efforts to rebuild the crumbling infrastructure as a result of decades of war and siege.


واضاف عبطان، ان "خطوات البنك ستكون تأثيرها اكبر على الاقتصاد العراقي والحياة المعيشية للمواطن في حال وضعت ضمن خطة اقتصادية تكون احد مقوماتها البنك المركزي". Abtan said, that "the steps the bank will be the largest impact on the Iraqi economy and the lives of citizens in the event of an economic plan put in one of its components are the central bank."


وكان البنك المركزي العراقي قد اعلن في وقت سابق أن العملة العراقية الجديدة سترفع عنها ثلاثة اصفار، مبيناً أنه أجرى دراسة مستفيضة انتهت الى أن رفع الاصفار سيقوي قيمة العملة العراقية . The CBI had announced earlier that the new Iraqi currency will increase by three zeros, indicating that he had conducted an extensive study concluded that the lifting of the zeroes will strengthen the value of the Iraqi currency.


واكد النائب انه "لايمكن تحميل ادارة البنك مسؤولية تردي الواقع الاقتصادي في البلد، لانه مسؤول عن السياسة المالية فقط". The MP said that he "can not load the bank's management responsible for the deterioration of the economic reality in the country, he is responsible for fiscal policy only." انتهى4. Over 4.


FROM AJ'S INTEL 2/2/12

AJAnderson wrote:The above statement in my opinion means that the nominal value is 1 Iraqi Dinar = 0.0008592 US Dollars as of 2/2/2012. If you remove the 3 zeros you have .8592 or about 86 cents to the USD. The USD is currently 78.98 at http://www.kitco.com/market/.

The above two figures leaves a 6.94 cent difference for the CBI to make a profit buying the USD out of the market place or Iraq.

As the article states deleting/razing the zeros from the Iraqi dinar! From the currency and by default, it deletes/razes the zeros from the exchange rate...

CJ

Come RV!

There is no way it will lop. The government alone owns 4 trillion.. who do you think is going to pay all these companies the billions of dollars for their work that are in iraq now working with the knowledge that they will be paid. They are not working for a break even point. Not for one minute would all the countries disolve the debt owed to them by iraq if they were not getting a huge payday.

every day you see multi million dollar contracts for major corporations being signed in iraq for their work. NO ONE is working for a breaking even

I could not agree more!

PrudenceArt wrote:There is no way it will lop. The government alone owns 4 trillion.. who do you think is going to pay all these companies the billions of dollars for their work that are in iraq now working with the knowledge that they will be paid. They are not working for a break even point. Not for one minute would all the countries disolve the debt owed to them by iraq if they were not getting a huge payday.

every day you see multi million dollar contracts for major corporations being signed in iraq for their work. NO ONE is working for a breaking even

PrudenceArt wrote:There is no way it will lop. The government alone owns 4 trillion.. Please provide a published link for that if we are to have an educated discussion. who do you think is going to pay all these companies the billions of dollars for their work that are in iraq now working with the knowledge that they will be paid. Thats easy, The Iraqi government will pay them what is in their contracts. They are not working for a break even point. No, they are working for the ammount stated in their contracts. Not for one minute would all the countries disolve the debt owed to them by iraq if they were not getting a huge payday. Exactly. Iraq has always been about the oil, not some currency reform, but again, they will all make money in time from the currency reform.

every day you see multi million dollar contracts for major corporations being signed in iraq for their work. NO ONE is working for a breaking even

No, they are working for the ammount stated in their contracts and any performance bonuses.

CJ

AJAnderson wrote:I could not agree more!

PrudenceArt wrote:There is no way it will lop. The government alone owns 4 trillion.. who do you think is going to pay all these companies the billions of dollars for their work that are in iraq now working with the knowledge that they will be paid. They are not working for a break even point. Not for one minute would all the countries disolve the debt owed to them by iraq if they were not getting a huge payday.

every day you see multi million dollar contracts for major corporations being signed in iraq for their work. NO ONE is working for a breaking even

Forget Million Dollar contracts........ Just think over the past year where you have read about MULTI-BILLION dollar contracts, not to mention infastructure inprovements as well as totally rebuilding of most of IRAQ.

I'm not saying they are going to RV (wish they would) but, I often scratch my head and wonder where is all these TRILLIONS of Dollars comming from? Everyday, Billions going here, Billions going there, where is it comming from??

As a common sense businessman I can tell you this, I would not invest Millions and Billions of my money in a country that was on the brink of failure with a currency that is worthless. It just doesn't make good financial sense. Again, I'm not saying a RV is near or imminent, just saying "follow the money", it's gotta surface sooner or later.

I just don't know how much "later" I can stand it!!

And we have never seen any report, from any US agency, where they admit that the US owns any IQD, It has been assumed that they do, they should, but the amount, if any, have never been released,

Let me ask a "silly" question: Why does everyone always misspell "raise"? Is this supposed to be a mixture of raise and erase? Surely it can't be done purposely to create insecurity or disguise the truth, can it???

bigdaddytim wrote:Let me ask a "silly" question: Why does everyone always misspell "raise"? Is this supposed to be a mixture of raise and erase? Surely it can't be done purposely to create insecurity or disguise the truth, can it???

Definition of RAZE

razed raz·ing

transitive verb

1 a: archaic: erase b: to scrape, cut, or shave off

2 to destroy to the ground : demolish

Examples of RAZE

the zeros on the dinar will be razed by the CBI
the developer razed the old school building and built a high-rise condominium complex

CJ

CJ,
I consider myself relatively well versed and having a fairly decent grip on the floral decoupage of the English language (we have always kept the Readers Digest in our bathroom). But,
I must stand and consider myself corrected. I am big enough to admit when I am wrong.

(Hat in hand)

Thank you.

bigdaddytim wrote:CJ,
I consider myself relatively well versed and having a fairly decent grip on the floral decoupage of the English language (we have always kept the Readers Digest in our bathroom). But,
I must stand and consider myself corrected. I am big enough to admit when I am wrong.

(Hat in hand)

Thank you.

However I would like to have a nickle (or better yet, 50 dinar) for every misspelled word I see here. I would be a very rich man!

I meant to add this earlier. It's a very good read...

Wednesday, January 25, 2012An Interview with John Jagerson
Since I first started visiting dinar forums one thing that has bothered me is the fact that most of the "experts" on this investment have a background in something other than finance, economics, or investment analysis. Many of them come from the world of MLM, selling products like Xango or Fuel Legacy. Some are former military personnel. Some work as contractors or in the oil business. One guy was a corporate recruiter. Another worked in the restaurant business. One guy was even a snake breeder. Not exactly what I was looking for.

Well I found one man who has discussed the dinar at length who is indeed qualified to discuss this investment, but some of you probably won't like what he has to say. His name is John Jagerson. He runs a website called Learning Markets, and his videos were included on one of the first posts I did back in September. Recently he commented on my blog which frankly surprised me. I replied and invited him to participate in a brief discussion for my readers which he agreed to do. I may not agree with John on everything, but I respect his credentials and his opinions and welcome his thoughts on investing in the IQD.



Sam: I appreciate your taking the time to answer a few questions for us. Could you give us a brief bio with your credentials?


John: I graduated from Utah Valley University with a degree in Business Administration where I emphasized in accounting and finance. I later completed the PLD at Harvard that has a strong international business focus. I have spent most of my career as an entrepreneur, which led me in two directions that eventually converged to form my current occupation. The first direction was to become involved in private equity (AKA venture and angel capital), which gave me experience in investment and risk analysis. The second was my experience (early in my career) importing products and equipment from Asia. While I was doing that I was frequently hedging currency risk and the currency-trading bug bit me. I haven’t turned back.


In 2003 I left entrepreneurship briefly and went to work with Investools, which was a roll-up of several online companies focused on investor education and information. Investools later acquired the options-brokerage thinkorswim (Barrons’ #1 rated), which was later acquired by TDAmeritrade after I left the company. I was a Vice President at the firm and was responsible for content, training, and client education. Working at thinkorswim Group I had the opportunity to get to know how individual investors work. This gave me a lot of insight into the biggest mistakes they make as well as the commonalities among successful traders.


For a brief period I was also a principle for a small CTA (NFA registered) focusing on forex trading, but left the industry when regulation changes in the U.S. pushed so many domestic traders overseas. I currently still write two option advisory letters that have done well. I ended 2011 profitably, which is “pretty good” in my book even if I didn’t blow the doors off.


I have written three books published by McGraw Hill. Two of these were about the international currency market or “Forex”. The third is on gold investing. I am currently writing a book on the coming (in my opinion) bond market collapse. I regularly write and record videos for online publications including Nasdaq.com, Scottrade, International Stock Exchange (ISE), LearningMarkets.com, Mint (an Intuit company) and Alpari among others.


OK that was not brief and I apologize for that but I thought it would be helpful to make sure that people wondering about the dinar know that I am not just speculating. I have experience in this business and I can show them how to find real information for themselves.


Sam: That's quite all right. Have you reported on other redenominations that were pumped as big profit opportunities?


John: Yes and no. I have reported on RVs and RDs in the past, but the dinar is an unusual situation that is being pumped unlike anything I have seen before. Everyone in the business knows that RVs and RDs are virtually impossible to trade so pumping would have just been seen as nonsense. The IQD RV is being pumped successfully because they are using it to scam non-professionals who don’t know how the currency market works.


I was “introduced” to the dinar RV by a friend who asked me what I thought. I told him RVs don’t work that way and that it sounded like a “rain maker” scam, but he invested anyway. I did a little investigation into how this scam was working and starting writing about it in 2008. I felt like this was a good thing to take a stand on since so many service men and women are being taken advantage of by the scammers.


I have written about other redenominations (Turkey, Mexico, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Germany, Japan, China, Kuwait, Iraq, and Vietnam) and revaluations (China, Japan & Switzerland). Both redominations and revaluations happen but none of them have or could work like dinar-RV investors think. – I have also written about other investor scams like advance-fee frauds, target date funds, HYIPs, and mail-order bullion dealers.




Sam: I'm sure a lot of my readers are saying "how can you call the dinar a scam? I bought dinar at BOA or Chase". How do you respond?


John: It is legal to exchange currencies with a service bureau or a bank in the U.S. There are still a few that will even exchange the dinar. However, that is not the same as advising that this is a “good investment opportunity.” That is the scam. The currency is just paper issued by the Iraqi government.



Sam: You say the IQD hasn't revalued since 2003, but many investors will tell you that they have doubled their money since they purchased.


John: A real RV is the result of intentional action by the central bank. Most currencies fluctuate in value over time without any interference from the bank. It is definitely possible to have bought the dinar at some point over the last few years and to be in a profitable position right now but that was not the result of an intentional RV. The real question is whether the dinar can continue to appreciate versus the dollar now?


Whenever I hear this I get pretty skeptical though. Where is the proof? There are plenty of folks who can show they bought between 1500 and 1100 to the dollar, which is where the official rate has ranged since the new series was issued, but counting costs and spread that is a far cry from a money-doubler. There was a VERY brief period in 2003 when the dinar was exchanged at over 1900 to the dollar, but I have yet to see anyone prove that they bought during those few months. Keep in mind that these aren’t my numbers. These are from the Central Bank of Iraq. I always tell people to go look it up themselves and make sure they are getting their information from the source rather than a pumper.


Sam: Can you tell us definitively how the Kuwaiti dinar redenomination unfolded?


John: Stage one – Fall 1990
Iraq invades and replaces the Kuwaiti dinar with the Iraqi dinar as the “official” currency. The Kuwaiti government was essentially in exile. However, because of the way currencies were managed in the early 1990’s the official rate for the KWD never changed. The UN condemned the invasion and no one of any consequence recognized the right of Iraq to replace the government and currency of Kuwait. There are many anecdotes floating around that you could have bought the KWD for a fraction of its original value on the black-market for a few weeks during that period but I don’t know of anyone brave enough to come forward and admit (and prove) that they did it.


Stage two – Winter 1991
The U.S. led invasion and liberation of Kuwait was chaotic to say the least for money supply in Kuwait. I have again heard anecdotes of people being able to buy KWD on the black market during this period but the official exchange rate was still the same. The old Kuwaiti government was restored following the withdrawal of Iraqi troops. This is really important => Unlike Iraq, the same government, currency, central bank, money, and civil system was in place before and immediately after the Iraqi invasion.


Stage three – September 1991
The KWD was redenominated with new bills in 1991. This means that the old bills held by the public were exchanged for new bills. Sometimes redenominations are done at a ratio (referred to as “lopping”) but this one was 1:1 straight across. Theoretically it is possible (this is a big “if”) for some investors who had bought KWD on the black market during the occupation to have made a big return but there are no known institutional investors who have admitted engaging in that activity and I suspect that the few people who did it are keeping quiet since war-profiteering is generally an unpopular if not illegal thing to do.


KWD Exchange rates
The KWD has been pegged to a basket of currencies (dominated by the dollar) or the dollar itself since 1975. Since the mid-1980s when the dollar was released to float more freely the KWD has had an exchange rate that has ranged between $2.78 and $3.10. This includes the period of the Iraqi invasion and the U.S. invasion of Iraq in the early 2000s.


The bottom line is that if you had 1,000KWD worth $3,000 before the invasion you still had 1,000 new KWD after 1991 that was still worth about $3,000 assuming you were able to exchange your hard currency. No one profited from the invasion.


Sam: What about the claims that some people made a fortune on the KWD?


John: As I mentioned above I have heard rumors and stories about profits being made by people who were buying KWD for a few weeks on the black market in the fall and winter of 1990, but where is the proof? There is none. In any case, these stories don’t help the hopes for the Iraqi RV because the same money and government existed before and after a 6 month war in Kuwait, which is why it is even theoretically possible to have made some profits. The only thing the Iraqi dinar has in common with the pre-1990 IQD is the name. Everything else has been changed. The government, central bank, and quantity of money supply has been changed since the invasion.


Sam: Did any currency dealers profit from the Kuwaiti dinar?

John: Theoretically it was possible to profit from the KWD if you had purchased it on the black market during the Iraqi invasion. There was a brief window of time that it was possible. However, it’s a lot like saying “oh I knew Apple was going to come back so I bought it at the absolute lowest price and sold it at the highest.” That sounds great but where is the proof? Even if he did its still moot. The KWD was the same thing with the same government backing it before and after the invasion. You can pull the historical exchange rate right from the central bank’s website. The IQD is a different currency, different government backing it, different supply, etc, etc.




Sam: If a dinar guru claims that he profited from the Kuwaiti dinar would you say he's lying? Adam Montana for example made such a claim in a book he wrote.

John: Yes, but can I prove it? No, but I can’t prove he doesn’t have magic beans either. It seems extremely unlikely that he was present in Kuwait and prescient enough to buy the KWD on the street when it was available before the Americans went in. If he did it then it should be easy to prove.



Sam: To your knowledge, what is the most substantial RV in history?

John: In absolute value terms the most significant RV in history was the RV of the Chinese Yuan in 2005 that is still ongoing. The exchange rate has actually moved in favor of the yuan 31%. However, there are slim pickings for this kind of RV. Usually an RV is done to lower your currency’s value. The Bank of Japan does this periodically by budging its exchange rate down by a few percentage points that usually evaporates within a few weeks. The Swiss National Bank did it last year when they pegged to the Euro but the change was just a few percentages then as well.


The IQD has fluctuated but has not been revalued since it was reissued in 2004. The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) has been raising interest rates to head off inflation which probably helped protect its official peg of 1170 to the U.S. dollar. However last year, inflation started getting away from them and the unofficial exchange rate (as reported by the CBI) is now about 1200 to the dollar.


Sam: Have investors ever managed to make a profit off of a redenomination?


John: Its pretty tough, but it is possible. The problem is usually one of liquidity because it is really difficult to buy and sell most of these currencies that go through a redenomination. If you want to do it, the most reliable way to make money from a redenomination is to short the currency. The vast majority of redenominations lead to a currency that continues to fall. You would have made money shorting the TRY in 2005 or the MXN in 1995, which were both trading actively in the forex at the time. This problem is that this is exactly the opposite of what IQD buyers are waiting for. They believe the IQD will go up after an RD, which has pretty much never happened.


If you are wondering about making money from the actual “redenomination” process then the answer is no. A redenomination does not affect the total value of the currency. If you had 120,000 IQD that are currently worth $100USD (1,200 USD/IQD) and the dinar remonetizes tomorrow by dropping three zeroes to a new exchange rate of 1.2 IQD to the dollar then you are flat. You would have to exchange your 120,000 dinar for 120 new dinar, which are worth $.833333 each or $120 in total. A redenomination results in the same aggregate value. Outside of the costs incurred in the transaction there are no gains or losses.


Sam: Is it possible that the US Treasury will take our dinar and use them for oil credits? This is a common claim made to explain how the RV process will work.


John: I don’t know why they would. The Treasury has FX reserves but not in any amount that would put a dent in oil imports from Iraq in the far future. Besides that, why would spending (injecting more dinar) into the world market drive its value up? Increasing supply drives prices down not up. Secondly – and this is really important - Oil is priced in U.S. dollars and most exporters sterilize their capital flows to prevent becoming dollarized or to head off inflation and some kind of massive reserve of the dinar would make that very difficult. The last thing I always ask when this question comes up is how do they know that the Treasury has some massive dinar reserve? Where did that data come from? It didn’t come from the Treasury. Like most of these rumors and “facts” it was just made up by the scammers.



Sam: Can fractional reserve banking allow investors to cash in $2 trillion or more?

John: Not without creating a significant shift in the value of the U.S. dollar. Money supply is measured in different ways but one of these – M1, which is a measure of liquid dollars and deposits in the economy - is just over $2 Trillion now. So you would basically be doubling the liquid dollars in the market. Can a fractional system absorb that from a practical perspective? No.


Sam: Would you be willing to debate Kaperoni, Frank Villa, Medic, Breitling ... etc. on this?


John: Yes, in person or in writing. Anytime.



Posted by Sam I Am at 8:14

http://dinardouchebags.blogspot.com/2012/01/interview-with-john-jagerson.html

Here is part of the post article discussion. It is also something to think about...

1604511e-479c-11e1-8b8f-000f20980440Jan 26, 2012 09:55 AM
My take on why this has been allowed to continue.
I think when the dinar was released the Coalition and Iraq allowed the dinar out into the surrounding middle eastern countries and wanted as many people as possible holding dinar and hoping for a big RV. It was a way to get support for the whole Iraqi operation.
Anyone holding dinar would be rooting for success. If you doubt the effectiveness of that… I’ve seen many democrats who despised George Bush and anything he did, on dinar boards pulling for Iraq. It was basically a big Psy-op plan. What I don’t think they expected, but turned out to be a blessing in disguise, was that the dinar turned into a world wide phenomenon. Dinar sales filled their FX reserves. It was and still is basically a huge interest free loan.
I look forward to seeing how they treat the trillions of dinar that have left Iraq and is in the hands of speculators.

RepliesSam I AmJan 27, 2012 03:39 PM
Thanks for your take on this. I have theorized in the past that Iraq and the US govt were somehow complicit in this but couldn't quite frame it in a logical fashion as you have. Well done.

LegolasJan 26, 2012 12:14 PM
16045....that's been the most logical explanation I've been able to put forth for the past 2 years. This massive speculation undeniably amounts to a HUGE, long-term interest free loan for Iraq, and they've inexplicably permitted billions of brand new IQD to leave the country unabated every month for 8 years now. Had they any intentions of RV'ing the Dinar, there's no way they would or could have allowed that to occur in such astounding numbers. The M1 has increased by trillions each year, and to believe that the GOI is unaware of this rampant RV expectation is simply delusional. Without a doubt, Iraq, the dealers, gurus and pumpers have been laughing all the way to the bank for years now. The final outcome remains unknown, but one would think that the liability issue for those fraudulently promoting it would be significant. Time will ultimately tell the story.

AJAnderson wrote:Come RV!

are you waiting for a re-denom or an r/v? then, who cares?

mitkire wrote:

AJAnderson wrote:Come RV!

are you waiting for a re-denom or an r/v? then, who cares?

A lot of people CARE about what AJ has to say.

SERIOUSE BUZZZZZZZ KILLLL......!!!!!!!!! CAPTAIN JERRY I CAN HONESTLY SAY YOU AND THE REALBUTTERFLY HAVE TAKEN AN OLD MANS DREAMS AND ASPERATIONS AND FLUSHED THEM DOWN THE TOILET OVER THE LAST 2 WEEKS .I WISH YOU WELL..

How do you really feel therealbutterfly:)

Yet nobody has explained how the Iraqies will not gain the same wealth (if it rv's) that we'll gain over the exchange? I mean, wouldn't the Iraqies just exchange their notes for usd and not their new notes? If they take their old currency out of circulation then it looks like shabs doesn't care about this people since they wont have the big notes to exchange.

And has anybody else consider that "removing the 3 zeros" could possibily mean just moving the decimal 3 times to the left?

Boy the last month has really crush my big payout dreams.

I think it is pretty easy to stay excited about this investment.

First, I based my decision to participate on the fact that Iraq's current financial status is based upon an ARTIFICIAL rate. That means I strongly believe that at some point Iraq will meet the world's requirements and set a STANDARD rate. I am hoping (and I think logically) that this rate is higher than the unheard of rate of 1176 to 1.

Second, regardless of the rate set, FOREX will correct the rate INSTANTLY to what the world market believes is more realistic. I believe that the demand for Dinar will be massive. Just think, getting a 10% return on your investment nowadays is hard. Think of all the people that will buy Dinar to be a part of the ride upward. By the way, Iraq doesn't have to SUPPORT this figure at all. That is a ridiculous thing to require. The market will ADJUST it up or down based on news relating to the country, its economy, politics, neighbors, holidays, and about anything else you can imagine. When the Dinar drops in value on FOREX, the government can buy some back cheaply for its reserves and this makes getting loans easier and cheaper, which increases investment and value. When the Dinar rises in value worldwide, the government can pay off international debt and support infrastructure easier.

Thirdly, whether they LOP or sit on their thumbs and spin around a few times doesn't matter. What matters is the result... how much bread can 1 dinar buy? If it is more bread tomorrow than today... then my dinar will be worth more tomorrow than today. That is the definition of a good investment! Why would they go to ANY effort to make it worth less? That would be an idiotic waste of time and energy. ALL of their effort has, and still is, going towards making Iraq MORE valuable, not less valuable. Their energy and effort and skills are what I am banking on.

I set my goals for "Return" in this investment very low, because I know that in the worst case scenario I actually have a foreign currency and even though I will lose something on the trade and to shipping and handling fees, etc., I can pretty much rest assured that unless I throw it away, it is impossible in this investment to lose everything. So actually my risk is lower than some would have you believe, and with low risk I set lower expectations for gain.

Finally, I understand that this is a once in a lifetime event. I have created many new friends, have really grown in my understanding of economics and world politics, and have even spent more time learning and understanding how our own government is working. Most powerfully though, I am seeing how hurt and needy the church, and the country in general has really become. There is a lot of desperation out there and it has really opened my eyes. I believe God will honor my compassion and I hope I am the man He can count on to be obedient with whatever He gives me.

What is stealing many people's joy is that this has gone from an investment vehicle to a rocket ship to fantasy-land. Why go there? Let this create a different kind of wealth for us all, and some financial gain soon. My mom is my hero in this investment, she has been buying it and giving it to different charities. In her mind everyone wins that way and she is ecstatic to have an opportunity to further the kingdom. I am not saying that is the only Godly response to this investment, but I am seeing that she has remained a lot more peaceful and excited than most! (Including me...)

I pray we can all find peace in Christ... the only investment that ever mattered.

SpaceCowboy,that is one awesome post

chevysteve wrote:How do you really feel therealbutterfly:)

i feel she wont be happy untill every one is on there band wagon..

geezer wrote:

chevysteve wrote:How do you really feel therealbutterfly:)

i feel she wont be happy untill every one is on there band wagon..

Geezer, I guarantee you that she want this investment to RV more than anyone here, especially since she's been in it from the beginning! We both have only provided you with the information that has been taken from the CBI published articles and provided you some the examples they have studied... God has given us free will to choose what we believe. You can believe this or not, it's your choice, but you might want to give her a little credibility as she has been around since the beginning and has seen it all!

CJ