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Not Good News If True
by roadkingrider Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:26 pm
Got this from another website...not my post
An Interview with John Jagerson
Since I first started visiting dinar forums one thing that has bothered me is the fact that most of the "experts" on this investment have a background in something other than finance, economics, or investment analysis. Many of them come from the world of MLM, selling products like Xango or Fuel Legacy. Some are former military personnel. Some work as contractors or in the oil business. One guy was a corporate recruiter. Another worked in the restaurant business. One guy was even a snake breeder. Not exactly what I was looking for.
Well I found one man who has discussed the dinar at length who is indeed qualified to discuss this investment, but some of you probably won't like what he has to say. His name is John Jagerson. He runs a website called Learning Markets, and his videos were included on one of the first posts I did back in September. Recently he commented on my blog which frankly surprised me. I replied and invited him to participate in a brief discussion for my readers which he agreed to do. I may not agree with John on everything, but I respect his credentials and his opinions and welcome his thoughts on investing in the IQD.
Sam: I appreciate your taking the time to answer a few questions for us. Could you give us a brief bio with your credentials?
John: I graduated from Utah Valley University with a degree in Business Administration where I emphasized in accounting and finance. I later completed the PLD at Harvard that has a strong international business focus. I have spent most of my career as an entrepreneur, which led me in two directions that eventually converged to form my current occupation. The first direction was to become involved in private equity (AKA venture and angel capital), which gave me experience in investment and risk analysis. The second was my experience (early in my career) importing products and equipment from Asia. While I was doing that I was frequently hedging currency risk and the currency-trading bug bit me. I haven’t turned back.
In 2003 I left entrepreneurship briefly and went to work with Investools, which was a roll-up of several online companies focused on investor education and information. Investools later acquired the options-brokerage thinkorswim (Barrons’ #1 rated), which was later acquired by TDAmeritrade after I left the company. I was a Vice President at the firm and was responsible for content, training, and client education. Working at thinkorswim Group I had the opportunity to get to know how individual investors work. This gave me a lot of insight into the biggest mistakes they make as well as the commonalities among successful traders.
For a brief period I was also a principle for a small CTA (NFA registered) focusing on forex trading, but left the industry when regulation changes in the U.S. pushed so many domestic traders overseas. I currently still write two option advisory letters that have done well. I ended 2011 profitably, which is “pretty good” in my book even if I didn’t blow the doors off.
I have written three books published by McGraw Hill. Two of these were about the international currency market or “Forex”. The third is on gold investing. I am currently writing a book on the coming (in my opinion) bond market collapse. I regularly write and record videos for online publications including Nasdaq.com, Scottrade, International Stock Exchange (ISE), LearningMarkets.com, Mint (an Intuit company) and Alpari among others.
OK that was not brief and I apologize for that but I thought it would be helpful to make sure that people wondering about the dinar know that I am not just speculating. I have experience in this business and I can show them how to find real information for themselves.
Sam: That's quite all right. Have you reported on other redenominations that were pumped as big profit opportunities?
John: Yes and no. I have reported on RVs and RDs in the past, but the dinar is an unusual situation that is being pumped unlike anything I have seen before. Everyone in the business knows that RVs and RDs are virtually impossible to trade so pumping would have just been seen as nonsense. The IQD RV is being pumped successfully because they are using it to scam non-professionals who don’t know how the currency market works.
I was “introduced” to the dinar RV by a friend who asked me what I thought. I told him RVs don’t work that way and that it sounded like a “rain maker” scam, but he invested anyway. I did a little investigation into how this scam was working and starting writing about it in 2008. I felt like this was a good thing to take a stand on since so many service men and women are being taken advantage of by the scammers.
I have written about other redenominations (Turkey, Mexico, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Germany, Japan, China, Kuwait, Iraq, and Vietnam) and revaluations (China, Japan & Switzerland). Both redominations and revaluations happen but none of them have or could work like dinar-RV investors think. – I have also written about other investor scams like advance-fee frauds, target date funds, HYIPs, and mail-order bullion dealers.
Sam: I'm sure a lot of my readers are saying "how can you call the dinar a scam? I bought dinar at BOA or Chase". How do you respond?
John: It is legal to exchange currencies with a service bureau or a bank in the U.S. There are still a few that will even exchange the dinar. However, that is not the same as advising that this is a “good investment opportunity.” That is the scam. The currency is just paper issued by the Iraqi government.
Sam: You say the IQD hasn't revalued since 2003, but many investors will tell you that they have doubled their money since they purchased.
John: A real RV is the result of intentional action by the central bank. Most currencies fluctuate in value over time without any interference from the bank. It is definitely possible to have bought the dinar at some point over the last few years and to be in a profitable position right now but that was not the result of an intentional RV. The real question is whether the dinar can continue to appreciate versus the dollar now?
Whenever I hear this I get pretty skeptical though. Where is the proof? There are plenty of folks who can show they bought between 1500 and 1100 to the dollar, which is where the official rate has ranged since the new series was issued, but counting costs and spread that is a far cry from a money-doubler. There was a VERY brief period in 2003 when the dinar was exchanged at over 1900 to the dollar, but I have yet to see anyone prove that they bought during those few months. Keep in mind that these aren’t my numbers. These are from the Central Bank of Iraq. I always tell people to go look it up themselves and make sure they are getting their information from the source rather than a pumper.
Sam: Can you tell us definitively how the Kuwaiti dinar redenomination unfolded?
John: Stage one – Fall 1990
Iraq invades and replaces the Kuwaiti dinar with the Iraqi dinar as the “official” currency. The Kuwaiti government was essentially in exile. However, because of the way currencies were managed in the early 1990’s the official rate for the KWD never changed. The UN condemned the invasion and no one of any consequence recognized the right of Iraq to replace the government and currency of Kuwait. There are many anecdotes floating around that you could have bought the KWD for a fraction of its original value on the black-market for a few weeks during that period but I don’t know of anyone brave enough to come forward and admit (and prove) that they did it.
Stage two – Winter 1991
The U.S. led invasion and liberation of Kuwait was chaotic to say the least for money supply in Kuwait. I have again heard anecdotes of people being able to buy KWD on the black market during this period but the official exchange rate was still the same. The old Kuwaiti government was restored following the withdrawal of Iraqi troops. This is really important => Unlike Iraq, the same government, currency, central bank, money, and civil system was in place before and immediately after the Iraqi invasion.
Stage three – September 1991
The KWD was redenominated with new bills in 1991. This means that the old bills held by the public were exchanged for new bills. Sometimes redenominations are done at a ratio (referred to as “lopping”) but this one was 1:1 straight across. Theoretically it is possible (this is a big “if”) for some investors who had bought KWD on the black market during the occupation to have made a big return but there are no known institutional investors who have admitted engaging in that activity and I suspect that the few people who did it are keeping quiet since war-profiteering is generally an unpopular if not illegal thing to do.
KWD Exchange rates
The KWD has been pegged to a basket of currencies (dominated by the dollar) or the dollar itself since 1975. Since the mid-1980s when the dollar was released to float more freely the KWD has had an exchange rate that has ranged between $2.78 and $3.10. This includes the period of the Iraqi invasion and the U.S. invasion of Iraq in the early 2000s.
The bottom line is that if you had 1,000KWD worth $3,000 before the invasion you still had 1,000 new KWD after 1991 that was still worth about $3,000 assuming you were able to exchange your hard currency. No one profited from the invasion.
Sam: What about the claims that some people made a fortune on the KWD?
John: As I mentioned above I have heard rumors and stories about profits being made by people who were buying KWD for a few weeks on the black market in the fall and winter of 1990, but where is the proof? There is none. In any case, these stories don’t help the hopes for the Iraqi RV because the same money and government existed before and after a 6 month war in Kuwait, which is why it is even theoretically possible to have made some profits. The only thing the Iraqi dinar has in common with the pre-1990 IQD is the name. Everything else has been changed. The government, central bank, and quantity of money supply has been changed since the invasion.
Sam: Did any currency dealers profit from the Kuwaiti dinar?
John: Theoretically it was possible to profit from the KWD if you had purchased it on the black market during the Iraqi invasion. There was a brief window of time that it was possible. However, it’s a lot like saying “oh I knew Apple was going to come back so I bought it at the absolute lowest price and sold it at the highest.” That sounds great but where is the proof? Even if he did its still moot. The KWD was the same thing with the same government backing it before and after the invasion. You can pull the historical exchange rate right from the central bank’s website. The IQD is a different currency, different government backing it, different supply, etc, etc.
Sam: If a dinar guru claims that he profited from the Kuwaiti dinar would you say he's lying? Adam Montana for example made such a claim in a book he wrote.
John: Yes, but can I prove it? No, but I can’t prove he doesn’t have magic beans either. It seems extremely unlikely that he was present in Kuwait and prescient enough to buy the KWD on the street when it was available before the Americans went in. If he did it then it should be easy to prove.
Sam: To your knowledge, what is the most substantial RV in history?
John: In absolute value terms the most significant RV in history was the RV of the Chinese Yuan in 2005 that is still ongoing. The exchange rate has actually moved in favor of the yuan 31%. However, there are slim pickings for this kind of RV. Usually an RV is done to lower your currency’s value. The Bank of Japan does this periodically by budging its exchange rate down by a few percentage points that usually evaporates within a few weeks. The Swiss National Bank did it last year when they pegged to the Euro but the change was just a few percentages then as well.
The IQD has fluctuated but has not been revalued since it was reissued in 2004. The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) has been raising interest rates to head off inflation which probably helped protect its official peg of 1170 to the U.S. dollar. However last year, inflation started getting away from them and the unofficial exchange rate (as reported by the CBI) is now about 1200 to the dollar.
Sam: Have investors ever managed to make a profit off of a redenomination?
John: Its pretty tough, but it is possible. The problem is usually one of liquidity because it is really difficult to buy and sell most of these currencies that go through a redenomination. If you want to do it, the most reliable way to make money from a redenomination is to short the currency. The vast majority of redenominations lead to a currency that continues to fall. You would have made money shorting the TRY in 2005 or the MXN in 1995, which were both trading actively in the forex at the time. This problem is that this is exactly the opposite of what IQD buyers are waiting for. They believe the IQD will go up after an RD, which has pretty much never happened.
If you are wondering about making money from the actual “redenomination” process then the answer is no. A redenomination does not affect the total value of the currency. If you had 120,000 IQD that are currently worth $100USD (1,200 USD/IQD) and the dinar remonetizes tomorrow by dropping three zeroes to a new exchange rate of 1.2 IQD to the dollar then you are flat. You would have to exchange your 120,000 dinar for 120 new dinar, which are worth $.833333 each or $120 in total. A redenomination results in the same aggregate value. Outside of the costs incurred in the transaction there are no gains or losses.
Sam: Is it possible that the US Treasury will take our dinar and use them for oil credits? This is a common claim made to explain how the RV process will work.
John: I don’t know why they would. The Treasury has FX reserves but not in any amount that would put a dent in oil imports from Iraq in the far future. Besides that, why would spending (injecting more dinar) into the world market drive its value up? Increasing supply drives prices down not up. Secondly – and this is really important - Oil is priced in U.S. dollars and most exporters sterilize their capital flows to prevent becoming dollarized or to head off inflation and some kind of massive reserve of the dinar would make that very difficult. The last thing I always ask when this question comes up is how do they know that the Treasury has some massive dinar reserve? Where did that data come from? It didn’t come from the Treasury. Like most of these rumors and “facts” it was just made up by the scammers.
Sam: Can fractional reserve banking allow investors to cash in $2 trillion or more?
John: Not without creating a significant shift in the value of the U.S. dollar. Money supply is measured in different ways but one of these – M1, which is a measure of liquid dollars and deposits in the economy - is just over $2 Trillion now. So you would basically be doubling the liquid dollars in the market. Can a fractional system absorb that from a practical perspective? No.
Sam: Would you be willing to debate Kaperoni, Space Cowboy, Medic, Breitling ... etc. on this?
John: Yes, in person or in writing. Anytime.
An Interview with John Jagerson
Since I first started visiting dinar forums one thing that has bothered me is the fact that most of the "experts" on this investment have a background in something other than finance, economics, or investment analysis. Many of them come from the world of MLM, selling products like Xango or Fuel Legacy. Some are former military personnel. Some work as contractors or in the oil business. One guy was a corporate recruiter. Another worked in the restaurant business. One guy was even a snake breeder. Not exactly what I was looking for.
Well I found one man who has discussed the dinar at length who is indeed qualified to discuss this investment, but some of you probably won't like what he has to say. His name is John Jagerson. He runs a website called Learning Markets, and his videos were included on one of the first posts I did back in September. Recently he commented on my blog which frankly surprised me. I replied and invited him to participate in a brief discussion for my readers which he agreed to do. I may not agree with John on everything, but I respect his credentials and his opinions and welcome his thoughts on investing in the IQD.
Sam: I appreciate your taking the time to answer a few questions for us. Could you give us a brief bio with your credentials?
John: I graduated from Utah Valley University with a degree in Business Administration where I emphasized in accounting and finance. I later completed the PLD at Harvard that has a strong international business focus. I have spent most of my career as an entrepreneur, which led me in two directions that eventually converged to form my current occupation. The first direction was to become involved in private equity (AKA venture and angel capital), which gave me experience in investment and risk analysis. The second was my experience (early in my career) importing products and equipment from Asia. While I was doing that I was frequently hedging currency risk and the currency-trading bug bit me. I haven’t turned back.
In 2003 I left entrepreneurship briefly and went to work with Investools, which was a roll-up of several online companies focused on investor education and information. Investools later acquired the options-brokerage thinkorswim (Barrons’ #1 rated), which was later acquired by TDAmeritrade after I left the company. I was a Vice President at the firm and was responsible for content, training, and client education. Working at thinkorswim Group I had the opportunity to get to know how individual investors work. This gave me a lot of insight into the biggest mistakes they make as well as the commonalities among successful traders.
For a brief period I was also a principle for a small CTA (NFA registered) focusing on forex trading, but left the industry when regulation changes in the U.S. pushed so many domestic traders overseas. I currently still write two option advisory letters that have done well. I ended 2011 profitably, which is “pretty good” in my book even if I didn’t blow the doors off.
I have written three books published by McGraw Hill. Two of these were about the international currency market or “Forex”. The third is on gold investing. I am currently writing a book on the coming (in my opinion) bond market collapse. I regularly write and record videos for online publications including Nasdaq.com, Scottrade, International Stock Exchange (ISE), LearningMarkets.com, Mint (an Intuit company) and Alpari among others.
OK that was not brief and I apologize for that but I thought it would be helpful to make sure that people wondering about the dinar know that I am not just speculating. I have experience in this business and I can show them how to find real information for themselves.
Sam: That's quite all right. Have you reported on other redenominations that were pumped as big profit opportunities?
John: Yes and no. I have reported on RVs and RDs in the past, but the dinar is an unusual situation that is being pumped unlike anything I have seen before. Everyone in the business knows that RVs and RDs are virtually impossible to trade so pumping would have just been seen as nonsense. The IQD RV is being pumped successfully because they are using it to scam non-professionals who don’t know how the currency market works.
I was “introduced” to the dinar RV by a friend who asked me what I thought. I told him RVs don’t work that way and that it sounded like a “rain maker” scam, but he invested anyway. I did a little investigation into how this scam was working and starting writing about it in 2008. I felt like this was a good thing to take a stand on since so many service men and women are being taken advantage of by the scammers.
I have written about other redenominations (Turkey, Mexico, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Germany, Japan, China, Kuwait, Iraq, and Vietnam) and revaluations (China, Japan & Switzerland). Both redominations and revaluations happen but none of them have or could work like dinar-RV investors think. – I have also written about other investor scams like advance-fee frauds, target date funds, HYIPs, and mail-order bullion dealers.
Sam: I'm sure a lot of my readers are saying "how can you call the dinar a scam? I bought dinar at BOA or Chase". How do you respond?
John: It is legal to exchange currencies with a service bureau or a bank in the U.S. There are still a few that will even exchange the dinar. However, that is not the same as advising that this is a “good investment opportunity.” That is the scam. The currency is just paper issued by the Iraqi government.
Sam: You say the IQD hasn't revalued since 2003, but many investors will tell you that they have doubled their money since they purchased.
John: A real RV is the result of intentional action by the central bank. Most currencies fluctuate in value over time without any interference from the bank. It is definitely possible to have bought the dinar at some point over the last few years and to be in a profitable position right now but that was not the result of an intentional RV. The real question is whether the dinar can continue to appreciate versus the dollar now?
Whenever I hear this I get pretty skeptical though. Where is the proof? There are plenty of folks who can show they bought between 1500 and 1100 to the dollar, which is where the official rate has ranged since the new series was issued, but counting costs and spread that is a far cry from a money-doubler. There was a VERY brief period in 2003 when the dinar was exchanged at over 1900 to the dollar, but I have yet to see anyone prove that they bought during those few months. Keep in mind that these aren’t my numbers. These are from the Central Bank of Iraq. I always tell people to go look it up themselves and make sure they are getting their information from the source rather than a pumper.
Sam: Can you tell us definitively how the Kuwaiti dinar redenomination unfolded?
John: Stage one – Fall 1990
Iraq invades and replaces the Kuwaiti dinar with the Iraqi dinar as the “official” currency. The Kuwaiti government was essentially in exile. However, because of the way currencies were managed in the early 1990’s the official rate for the KWD never changed. The UN condemned the invasion and no one of any consequence recognized the right of Iraq to replace the government and currency of Kuwait. There are many anecdotes floating around that you could have bought the KWD for a fraction of its original value on the black-market for a few weeks during that period but I don’t know of anyone brave enough to come forward and admit (and prove) that they did it.
Stage two – Winter 1991
The U.S. led invasion and liberation of Kuwait was chaotic to say the least for money supply in Kuwait. I have again heard anecdotes of people being able to buy KWD on the black market during this period but the official exchange rate was still the same. The old Kuwaiti government was restored following the withdrawal of Iraqi troops. This is really important => Unlike Iraq, the same government, currency, central bank, money, and civil system was in place before and immediately after the Iraqi invasion.
Stage three – September 1991
The KWD was redenominated with new bills in 1991. This means that the old bills held by the public were exchanged for new bills. Sometimes redenominations are done at a ratio (referred to as “lopping”) but this one was 1:1 straight across. Theoretically it is possible (this is a big “if”) for some investors who had bought KWD on the black market during the occupation to have made a big return but there are no known institutional investors who have admitted engaging in that activity and I suspect that the few people who did it are keeping quiet since war-profiteering is generally an unpopular if not illegal thing to do.
KWD Exchange rates
The KWD has been pegged to a basket of currencies (dominated by the dollar) or the dollar itself since 1975. Since the mid-1980s when the dollar was released to float more freely the KWD has had an exchange rate that has ranged between $2.78 and $3.10. This includes the period of the Iraqi invasion and the U.S. invasion of Iraq in the early 2000s.
The bottom line is that if you had 1,000KWD worth $3,000 before the invasion you still had 1,000 new KWD after 1991 that was still worth about $3,000 assuming you were able to exchange your hard currency. No one profited from the invasion.
Sam: What about the claims that some people made a fortune on the KWD?
John: As I mentioned above I have heard rumors and stories about profits being made by people who were buying KWD for a few weeks on the black market in the fall and winter of 1990, but where is the proof? There is none. In any case, these stories don’t help the hopes for the Iraqi RV because the same money and government existed before and after a 6 month war in Kuwait, which is why it is even theoretically possible to have made some profits. The only thing the Iraqi dinar has in common with the pre-1990 IQD is the name. Everything else has been changed. The government, central bank, and quantity of money supply has been changed since the invasion.
Sam: Did any currency dealers profit from the Kuwaiti dinar?
John: Theoretically it was possible to profit from the KWD if you had purchased it on the black market during the Iraqi invasion. There was a brief window of time that it was possible. However, it’s a lot like saying “oh I knew Apple was going to come back so I bought it at the absolute lowest price and sold it at the highest.” That sounds great but where is the proof? Even if he did its still moot. The KWD was the same thing with the same government backing it before and after the invasion. You can pull the historical exchange rate right from the central bank’s website. The IQD is a different currency, different government backing it, different supply, etc, etc.
Sam: If a dinar guru claims that he profited from the Kuwaiti dinar would you say he's lying? Adam Montana for example made such a claim in a book he wrote.
John: Yes, but can I prove it? No, but I can’t prove he doesn’t have magic beans either. It seems extremely unlikely that he was present in Kuwait and prescient enough to buy the KWD on the street when it was available before the Americans went in. If he did it then it should be easy to prove.
Sam: To your knowledge, what is the most substantial RV in history?
John: In absolute value terms the most significant RV in history was the RV of the Chinese Yuan in 2005 that is still ongoing. The exchange rate has actually moved in favor of the yuan 31%. However, there are slim pickings for this kind of RV. Usually an RV is done to lower your currency’s value. The Bank of Japan does this periodically by budging its exchange rate down by a few percentage points that usually evaporates within a few weeks. The Swiss National Bank did it last year when they pegged to the Euro but the change was just a few percentages then as well.
The IQD has fluctuated but has not been revalued since it was reissued in 2004. The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) has been raising interest rates to head off inflation which probably helped protect its official peg of 1170 to the U.S. dollar. However last year, inflation started getting away from them and the unofficial exchange rate (as reported by the CBI) is now about 1200 to the dollar.
Sam: Have investors ever managed to make a profit off of a redenomination?
John: Its pretty tough, but it is possible. The problem is usually one of liquidity because it is really difficult to buy and sell most of these currencies that go through a redenomination. If you want to do it, the most reliable way to make money from a redenomination is to short the currency. The vast majority of redenominations lead to a currency that continues to fall. You would have made money shorting the TRY in 2005 or the MXN in 1995, which were both trading actively in the forex at the time. This problem is that this is exactly the opposite of what IQD buyers are waiting for. They believe the IQD will go up after an RD, which has pretty much never happened.
If you are wondering about making money from the actual “redenomination” process then the answer is no. A redenomination does not affect the total value of the currency. If you had 120,000 IQD that are currently worth $100USD (1,200 USD/IQD) and the dinar remonetizes tomorrow by dropping three zeroes to a new exchange rate of 1.2 IQD to the dollar then you are flat. You would have to exchange your 120,000 dinar for 120 new dinar, which are worth $.833333 each or $120 in total. A redenomination results in the same aggregate value. Outside of the costs incurred in the transaction there are no gains or losses.
Sam: Is it possible that the US Treasury will take our dinar and use them for oil credits? This is a common claim made to explain how the RV process will work.
John: I don’t know why they would. The Treasury has FX reserves but not in any amount that would put a dent in oil imports from Iraq in the far future. Besides that, why would spending (injecting more dinar) into the world market drive its value up? Increasing supply drives prices down not up. Secondly – and this is really important - Oil is priced in U.S. dollars and most exporters sterilize their capital flows to prevent becoming dollarized or to head off inflation and some kind of massive reserve of the dinar would make that very difficult. The last thing I always ask when this question comes up is how do they know that the Treasury has some massive dinar reserve? Where did that data come from? It didn’t come from the Treasury. Like most of these rumors and “facts” it was just made up by the scammers.
Sam: Can fractional reserve banking allow investors to cash in $2 trillion or more?
John: Not without creating a significant shift in the value of the U.S. dollar. Money supply is measured in different ways but one of these – M1, which is a measure of liquid dollars and deposits in the economy - is just over $2 Trillion now. So you would basically be doubling the liquid dollars in the market. Can a fractional system absorb that from a practical perspective? No.
Sam: Would you be willing to debate Kaperoni, Space Cowboy, Medic, Breitling ... etc. on this?
John: Yes, in person or in writing. Anytime.
roadkingrider- Active Member
- Posts : 37
Join date : 2011-06-27
Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:46 pm
Sounds like a bright man for sure. My excitement level has been on the decline as we constasntly see more nd more ____'s crawl from the woodwork. This guy makes a great point when you have MLM people, snake breeders, and a lot of people that say that have certain credentials, but remain nameless. Cheers to this guy for allowing his name to be posted. The point he makes that Kuwait never RV'd proves what many of us have said, which is, it never happened. Most of these _____'s still say that Kuwait did, which in itself tells us we are trying to be lead by people that really don't know wat they are talking about. Not sure this will be the "blessing" that so many have counted on. I'm feeling it will proved to be far less, and a damaging investment to so many, whether it be to their health, investing money they could not afford to loose, and the cost to regroup their family lives that I'm pretty sure will be tested from all the untruths that have been spread. I hope my gut feeling is wrong, but when you read a post from someone like this, makes you think and feel that we have been taken for a bad ride with people that do not have the best interest of their followers at hand.
Go RI/RV..
Go RI/RV..
sandwedge- Elite Member
- Posts : 1251
Join date : 2011-10-14
Re: Not Good News If True
by roadkingrider Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:53 pm
sandwedge wrote:Sounds like a bright man for sure. My excitement level has been on the decline as we constasntly see more nd more ____'s crawl from the woodwork. This guy makes a great point when you have MLM people, snake breeders, and a lot of people that say that have certain credentials, but remain nameless. Cheers to this guy for allowing his name to be posted. The point he makes that Kuwait never RV'd proves what many of us have said, which is, it never happened. Most of these _____'s still say that Kuwait did, which in itself tells us we are trying to be lead by people that really don't know wat they are talking about. Not sure this will be the "blessing" that so many have counted on. I'm feeling it will proved to be far less, and a damaging investment to so many, whether it be to their health, investing money they could not afford to loose, and the cost to regroup their family lives that I'm pretty sure will be tested from all the untruths that have been spread. I hope my gut feeling is wrong, but when you read a post from someone like this, makes you think and feel that we have been taken for a bad ride with people that do not have the best interest of their followers at hand.
Go RI/RV..
I totally agree. It seems in the past few weeks that more and more naysayers are coming out of the wood work and so my excitement has been tempered quite a bit. Dont know the outcome but I'm definitely not excited anymore. The more I think about it the more I think we all got scammed. Hope I'm wrong...guess we just have to wait and see
roadkingrider- Active Member
- Posts : 37
Join date : 2011-06-27
Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:54 pm
Kuwait did happen. My best friends family invested and went from being extremely poor to very rich over night. That is how I found out about the dinar and was encouraged to invest.
Just because he talks the talks means absolutely ZERO, ZIP, NADA in my book.
He could be some guy living out of a trailer for all we know.
I've witnessed what happened to a family first hand. I have faith this will
happen again.
disclaimer: my intent in posting was not to offend anyone living in a mobile home. i only wanted to make a point.
Just because he talks the talks means absolutely ZERO, ZIP, NADA in my book.
He could be some guy living out of a trailer for all we know.
I've witnessed what happened to a family first hand. I have faith this will
happen again.
disclaimer: my intent in posting was not to offend anyone living in a mobile home. i only wanted to make a point.
Last edited by supergirl on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
supergirl- Elite Member
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Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:55 pm
Guys come on...we've come to far to give up now.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:59 pm
supergirl wrote:Kuwait did happen. My best friends family invested and went from being extremely poor to very rich over night. That is how I found out about the dinar and was encouraged to invest.
Just because he talks the talks means absolutely ZERO, ZIP, NADA in my book.
He could be some guy living out of a trailor for all we know.
I've witnessed what happened to a family first hand. I have faith this will
happen again.
disclaimer: my intent in posting was not to offend anyone living in a mobile home. i only wanted to make a point.
Kuwait reopened their banks to an RI. If you can find any article that shows a significant Kuwait RV, then I'll be the first person to thank you.
Go RI/RV..
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Re: Not Good News If True
by CaptnJerry Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:00 pm
Well... I don't know about ya'll, but I would pay money to hear him debate "those who shall remain nameless"!!! This gentleman definately has his facts together, the fact that he knows Kuwait never RV'd lets me know right there that he knows what he's talking about. He is saying what I've been thinking for a long time that there isn't any money to be made short term. Supergirl, I don't think anyone is giving up... We're just waiting to see how this all plays out...
CJ
CJ
*****************
Inspired by Splovengates "Be ready between sunday and monday night, or maybe tuesday or wednesday, could also be thursday but definitely by friday.... probably next week, monday or late tuesday night, wednesday morning to hear the rv and should be cashing in on the following tuesday the 1st part of january or february. Sooner more than later. But no later than the beginning of 2013. Certainly not before then. Until then, let's enjoy the ride!
Come on RI/RV!
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Re: Not Good News If True
by greenlight Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:02 pm
Continuing down the path we have been on for many years does not imply an outcome we all want or have been told is at the end.supergirl wrote:Guys come on...we've come to far to give up now.
Perhaps you missed this article where we read specifically and most clearly that the dinar is NOT going to revalue appreciably.
Us dinar holders really need to pull our collective heads out of the sand and face reality.
No one is going to get rich from this. And I do mean NO ONE.
http://www.almutmar.com/index.php?id=201219682
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Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:04 pm
supergirl wrote:Kuwait did happen. My best friends family invested and went from being extremely poor to very rich over night. That is how I found out about the dinar and was encouraged to invest.
Just because he talks the talks means absolutely ZERO, ZIP, NADA in my book.
He could be some guy living out of a trailor for all we know.
I've witnessed what happened to a family first hand. I have faith this will
happen again.
disclaimer: my intent in posting was not to offend anyone living in a mobile home. i only wanted to make a point.
You wrote, "He could be some guy living out of a trailor for all we know". Some of these _____'s have criminal pasts. I'm going to look this guy up since we have his name. My guess would be the ____'s are the one's living in the trailers.
Go RI/RV..
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Re: Not Good News If True
by jahlives Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:05 pm
-----------------roadkingrider wrote:Got this from another website...not my post
An Interview with John Jagerson
Since I first started visiting dinar forums one thing that has bothered me is the fact that most of the "experts" on this investment have a background in something other than finance, economics, or investment analysis. Many of them come from the world of MLM, selling products like Xango or Fuel Legacy. Some are former military personnel. Some work as contractors or in the oil business. One guy was a corporate recruiter. Another worked in the restaurant business. One guy was even a snake breeder. Not exactly what I was looking for.
Well I found one man who has discussed the dinar at length who is indeed qualified to discuss this investment, but some of you probably won't like what he has to say. His name is John Jagerson. He runs a website called Learning Markets, and his videos were included on one of the first posts I did back in September. Recently he commented on my blog which frankly surprised me. I replied and invited him to participate in a brief discussion for my readers which he agreed to do. I may not agree with John on everything, but I respect his credentials and his opinions and welcome his thoughts on investing in the IQD.
Please provide the following:
1. Where was this interview posted - what is the source, website link?
2. Who is the "I" referred to in the above paragraphs that invited John Jagerson to participate in this discussion?
*****************
LOVE IS MY RELIGION
WE ARE ONE!COME DINAR RI/RV, NOW!!! :farao:
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Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:07 pm
[quote="greenlight"]
Perhaps you missed this article where we read specifically and most clearly that the dinar is NOT going to revalue appreciably.
Us dinar holders really need to pull our collective heads out of the sand and face reality.
No one is going to get rich from this. And I do mean NO ONE.
I hate to say it, but I would have to agree with you at this point in time.
Go RI/RV..
Continuing down the path we have been on for many years does not imply an outcome we all want or have been told is at the end.supergirl wrote:Guys come on...we've come to far to give up now.
Perhaps you missed this article where we read specifically and most clearly that the dinar is NOT going to revalue appreciably.
Us dinar holders really need to pull our collective heads out of the sand and face reality.
No one is going to get rich from this. And I do mean NO ONE.
I hate to say it, but I would have to agree with you at this point in time.
Go RI/RV..
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Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:07 pm
@greenlight - have read it and corresponding articles several times and still believe its going to happen. I'm confused as to why you are on a dinar forum if that is your belief system?
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Re: Not Good News If True
by CaptnJerry Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:10 pm
supergirl wrote:Kuwait did happen. My best friends family invested and went from being extremely poor to very rich over night. That is how I found out about the dinar and was encouraged to invest.
Just because he talks the talks means absolutely ZERO, ZIP, NADA in my book.
He could be some guy living out of a trailor for all we know.
I've witnessed what happened to a family first hand. I have faith this will
happen again.
disclaimer: my intent in posting was not to offend anyone living in a mobile home. i only wanted to make a point.
How did your friends family invest? Were they actually in Kuwait and purchased directly from the black marketeers? I ask that cause the KWD never changed value on forex during that time, so how is it that they were able to make money during that time? Please don't take my questions as being rude. I would just really love to know the answers to these questions...
CJ
Last edited by CaptnJerry on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
*****************
Inspired by Splovengates "Be ready between sunday and monday night, or maybe tuesday or wednesday, could also be thursday but definitely by friday.... probably next week, monday or late tuesday night, wednesday morning to hear the rv and should be cashing in on the following tuesday the 1st part of january or february. Sooner more than later. But no later than the beginning of 2013. Certainly not before then. Until then, let's enjoy the ride!
Come on RI/RV!
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Re: Not Good News If True
by roadkingrider Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:11 pm
jahlives wrote:-----------------roadkingrider wrote:Got this from another website...not my post
An Interview with John Jagerson
Since I first started visiting dinar forums one thing that has bothered me is the fact that most of the "experts" on this investment have a background in something other than finance, economics, or investment analysis. Many of them come from the world of MLM, selling products like Xango or Fuel Legacy. Some are former military personnel. Some work as contractors or in the oil business. One guy was a corporate recruiter. Another worked in the restaurant business. One guy was even a snake breeder. Not exactly what I was looking for.
Well I found one man who has discussed the dinar at length who is indeed qualified to discuss this investment, but some of you probably won't like what he has to say. His name is John Jagerson. He runs a website called Learning Markets, and his videos were included on one of the first posts I did back in September. Recently he commented on my blog which frankly surprised me. I replied and invited him to participate in a brief discussion for my readers which he agreed to do. I may not agree with John on everything, but I respect his credentials and his opinions and welcome his thoughts on investing in the IQD.
Please provide the following:
1. Where was this interview posted - what is the source, website link?
2. Who is the "I" referred to in the above paragraphs that invited John Jagerson to participate in this discussion?
http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/102253-an-interview-with-john-jagerson/page__pid__830114__st__0&#entry830114
Dont know who Sam is...Sorry
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Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:15 pm
@captnjerry - I'll ask her to join this forum so she can tell you herself. She invested in the dinar too and so did her family.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:15 pm
Search John Jagerson and you will find tons of info on the guy. Here's just a couple links to show the members he is the real deal. Wouldn't it be nice if the ______'s names were provided? The boys at PTR did and that's why I stay away. It' always nice to know who's providing the intel.
John Jagerson - Forex Street. The Foreign Exchange Market
John Jagerson has worked in the capital markets and private equity for most of his career—including investing, writing and money management. He was a vice president for Investools (SWIM) and is currently a co-founder of LearningMarkets.com.
Cached page
John Jagerson has worked in the capital markets and private equity for most of his career—including investing, writing and money management. He was a vice president ...
www.fxstreet.com/search/contributors/authors/author.aspx?id=34b5a9...
John Jagerson: Profile - Business Exchange
John Jagerson a Analyst from Utah, is a contributor at BusinessWeek's Business Exchange. More about John Jagerson: I have worked in the capital markets and …
bx.businessweek.com/profile/john-jagerson/jjagerson56
Articles by John Jagerson - Quantified Stock Market Trading ...
Improve your stock market trading with quantified systems developed by Larry Connors. Perfect for swing trading, day trading, ETF trading.
www.tradingmarkets.com/authors/all/John_Jagerson
John Jagerson | The Guide Forex Solution
Profiting with Forex : The Most Effective Tools and Techniques for Trading Currencies introduces investors to all of the advantages with the global overseas exchange ...
thefunnysolution.com/tag/john-jagerson
John Jagerson - Forex Street. The Foreign Exchange Market
John Jagerson has worked in the capital markets and private equity for most of his career—including investing, writing and money management. He was a vice president for Investools (SWIM) and is currently a co-founder of LearningMarkets.com.
Cached page
John Jagerson has worked in the capital markets and private equity for most of his career—including investing, writing and money management. He was a vice president ...
www.fxstreet.com/search/contributors/authors/author.aspx?id=34b5a9...
John Jagerson: Profile - Business Exchange
John Jagerson a Analyst from Utah, is a contributor at BusinessWeek's Business Exchange. More about John Jagerson: I have worked in the capital markets and …
bx.businessweek.com/profile/john-jagerson/jjagerson56
Articles by John Jagerson - Quantified Stock Market Trading ...
Improve your stock market trading with quantified systems developed by Larry Connors. Perfect for swing trading, day trading, ETF trading.
www.tradingmarkets.com/authors/all/John_Jagerson
John Jagerson | The Guide Forex Solution
Profiting with Forex : The Most Effective Tools and Techniques for Trading Currencies introduces investors to all of the advantages with the global overseas exchange ...
thefunnysolution.com/tag/john-jagerson
Last edited by sandwedge on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Not Good News If True
by CaptnJerry Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:19 pm
supergirl wrote:@captnjerry - I'll ask her to join this forum so she can tell you herself. She invested in the dinar too and so did her family.
Thank you supergirl
CJ
*****************
Inspired by Splovengates "Be ready between sunday and monday night, or maybe tuesday or wednesday, could also be thursday but definitely by friday.... probably next week, monday or late tuesday night, wednesday morning to hear the rv and should be cashing in on the following tuesday the 1st part of january or february. Sooner more than later. But no later than the beginning of 2013. Certainly not before then. Until then, let's enjoy the ride!
Come on RI/RV!
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Re: Not Good News If True
by greenlight Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:19 pm
supergirl wrote:@greenlight - have read it and corresponding articles several times and still believe its going to happen. I'm confused as to why you are on a dinar forum if that is your belief system?
two things...
First, how can someone read all the pertinent CBI new releases and still come to the conclusion that we will get rich off this thing? That is truly beyond reason.
Second, I am here because there are many many hurting people that will be utterly devastated in the end unless they wake up to reality. Then and only then will they be able to deal with all this in the right way.
Too many people have spent money setting up trusts, LLCs, and other such things believing they will be rich and feel the need to protect it once they get it.
Not only will they lose the commissions of buying it and then selling it, they will lose whatever money they shelled out for the other such things.
Some have gone more drastic and quit jobs. Some have been totally embarrassed by going to the banks when assured they can cash in.
I could go on and on and on, but in the end there will be far too many who will choose false hopes and dreams rather than reality.
I am here in hopes of helping the hurting and bringing as many as I can to reality.
I too was suckered into investing in this and bought far too much before realizing exactly what this was. If I sold it back today I would be out 5-6 grand, so I choose to wait and see if I can at least get most, if not all of what I put into it. My doubts are running high, but it is what it is.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by roadkingrider Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:24 pm
Just found this from KAP..who by the way was mentioned in the piece
Sam-I-Am
Well, it appears you are going to great lengths to convince people your re-denomination theory is correct. To go so far now to even list JayP and yourself (Chuckles) as one of the "ones to listen to" haha. Interviewing even the President would be a waste of time in my book if he has not done his homework on this investment. Your latest may have a business degree in accounting finance, but it still does not make him an authority on the dinar without doing the proper investigative research. I can bring experts as well in various fields to speak their opinion, (such as Bob the DinarAlert site owner) who is one of the top brokers in the nation and a self-made millionaire to also state that this is an RV, but i don't because even though he believes this, he does not spend the time reading and deciphering articles as i do because he trusts my skills. Therefore, his view is simply that...a view.
My recommendation to you is to stop trying to convince yourself its a re-denomination by bringing such interviews to your blog, but to do the actual due diligence yourself by reading as many articles, documents, etc. as you can and draw a factual conclusion. You then will know this is an RV and not an RD.
Your recent post, including me on your BS list has earned YOU your own Douche Award. If you read just one of my chats, you would know that each and everyone of them is backed up by factual information (usually quotes) from various articles or documents. And if you followed my research over the past year, you would know I am the only researcher who has proven factual information on this investment. Here are a few from last year alone...
1. What delete 3 zeros means really means
2. Provided photographs from summer education dinar symposiums
3. Confirmed that Iraq would not achieve accession to the WTO in 2011
4. Documented the World Bank's roll in the RV (including the financing of the information campaign to the Iraqi people with articles and symposiums)
5. How the RV fits in the overall banking reforms and economic reforms
6. Clearly stated in Oct that parliament was the key and the issues with parliament are preventing this from occuring.
7. That Iraq was scared to pass the economic reforms needed to expedite the move to a free market economy and give Shabibi the support he needs to RV the currency (read my 4 part chat titled "The Truth and Reality of the Iraqi Government").
8. Most recently, the information from parliament pertaining to the phases of the delete 3 zero process and where we sit in that process (phase 2)
9. And today, that the RV cannot or will not happen till after the budget is passed as parliament has stated they will NOT take up passing economic laws until after the budget is passed. And we know these economic laws include a law adjusting all accounting records (which would not be needed if a re-denomination was occurring).
Like I said, you spend way too much time trying to "prance in" so called more "intelligent" experts to prove it's a re-denomination when, in fact, there is clear evidence that it is not. In fact, there are also insinuating facts (occurrences that happen in an RV not an RD) that support an RV as well. I also challenge you to bring in an Arabic translator. One who can give you the true meaning of audio tapes or articles such as I have. You see, until you have done the real homework you are nothing more than one of the douche bags you name on your site.
I consider myself an expert on the dinar investment, not because I hold a degree from Harvard or am an economist, but because there is literally no document that I have not read that pertains to it. More importantly, I categorize and disseminate that information so it can be applied to the overall "puzzle" if needed. That is how you become an authority on the subject. Anyone (and there are many) can simply bash or discard one's statements. If you really study what I present, you would see many of the so called gurus using my information in their own attempts at intel within days of my releasing it (the accounting law is an example). I guess I should take that as a compliment.
I leave you with this challenge to uncover, Ali Agha owner of DinarTrade used to purchase dinar direct from Trade Bank of Iraq. He said on numerous occasions that he talked to the Trade Bank several times a week (and that makes sense since he purchased from them) and they stated clearly to him that this would be an RV and not a LOP or RD. His words are on Dinar Daddy's recordings (think there are 4 or 5 that feature Ali). Listen and document this on your blog. That in itself is compelling, unless he lied. Then again, why would he spend millions buying a bank in Iraq, or buying real estate (exchange centers) if he did not believe this information?
When this RV's you should be the first one to email me. I expect to see this stating...Kap you were right!
BTW, i am posting this on DinarAlert for all to see.
Kap
Sam-I-Am
Well, it appears you are going to great lengths to convince people your re-denomination theory is correct. To go so far now to even list JayP and yourself (Chuckles) as one of the "ones to listen to" haha. Interviewing even the President would be a waste of time in my book if he has not done his homework on this investment. Your latest may have a business degree in accounting finance, but it still does not make him an authority on the dinar without doing the proper investigative research. I can bring experts as well in various fields to speak their opinion, (such as Bob the DinarAlert site owner) who is one of the top brokers in the nation and a self-made millionaire to also state that this is an RV, but i don't because even though he believes this, he does not spend the time reading and deciphering articles as i do because he trusts my skills. Therefore, his view is simply that...a view.
My recommendation to you is to stop trying to convince yourself its a re-denomination by bringing such interviews to your blog, but to do the actual due diligence yourself by reading as many articles, documents, etc. as you can and draw a factual conclusion. You then will know this is an RV and not an RD.
Your recent post, including me on your BS list has earned YOU your own Douche Award. If you read just one of my chats, you would know that each and everyone of them is backed up by factual information (usually quotes) from various articles or documents. And if you followed my research over the past year, you would know I am the only researcher who has proven factual information on this investment. Here are a few from last year alone...
1. What delete 3 zeros means really means
2. Provided photographs from summer education dinar symposiums
3. Confirmed that Iraq would not achieve accession to the WTO in 2011
4. Documented the World Bank's roll in the RV (including the financing of the information campaign to the Iraqi people with articles and symposiums)
5. How the RV fits in the overall banking reforms and economic reforms
6. Clearly stated in Oct that parliament was the key and the issues with parliament are preventing this from occuring.
7. That Iraq was scared to pass the economic reforms needed to expedite the move to a free market economy and give Shabibi the support he needs to RV the currency (read my 4 part chat titled "The Truth and Reality of the Iraqi Government").
8. Most recently, the information from parliament pertaining to the phases of the delete 3 zero process and where we sit in that process (phase 2)
9. And today, that the RV cannot or will not happen till after the budget is passed as parliament has stated they will NOT take up passing economic laws until after the budget is passed. And we know these economic laws include a law adjusting all accounting records (which would not be needed if a re-denomination was occurring).
Like I said, you spend way too much time trying to "prance in" so called more "intelligent" experts to prove it's a re-denomination when, in fact, there is clear evidence that it is not. In fact, there are also insinuating facts (occurrences that happen in an RV not an RD) that support an RV as well. I also challenge you to bring in an Arabic translator. One who can give you the true meaning of audio tapes or articles such as I have. You see, until you have done the real homework you are nothing more than one of the douche bags you name on your site.
I consider myself an expert on the dinar investment, not because I hold a degree from Harvard or am an economist, but because there is literally no document that I have not read that pertains to it. More importantly, I categorize and disseminate that information so it can be applied to the overall "puzzle" if needed. That is how you become an authority on the subject. Anyone (and there are many) can simply bash or discard one's statements. If you really study what I present, you would see many of the so called gurus using my information in their own attempts at intel within days of my releasing it (the accounting law is an example). I guess I should take that as a compliment.
I leave you with this challenge to uncover, Ali Agha owner of DinarTrade used to purchase dinar direct from Trade Bank of Iraq. He said on numerous occasions that he talked to the Trade Bank several times a week (and that makes sense since he purchased from them) and they stated clearly to him that this would be an RV and not a LOP or RD. His words are on Dinar Daddy's recordings (think there are 4 or 5 that feature Ali). Listen and document this on your blog. That in itself is compelling, unless he lied. Then again, why would he spend millions buying a bank in Iraq, or buying real estate (exchange centers) if he did not believe this information?
When this RV's you should be the first one to email me. I expect to see this stating...Kap you were right!
BTW, i am posting this on DinarAlert for all to see.
Kap
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Re: Not Good News If True
by topspin2 Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:28 pm
John Jagerson is solid. He makes very valid points. The sale of the dinar is a nice profit for paper money that has no value. It is what it is....Put it in your drawer and go for wings because if this does happen, it WILL NOT BE ANYTIME SOON. PERIOD!
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Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:29 pm
@greenlight - well good luck with that .... you still have time to sell and get out why haven't you? there are way too many positives that i see compared to the negatives. i'm still all in. i believe the so called "youknowwho's" have cheapened this investment and they are responsible for making people like yourself lose hope. i'm sorry you are in this space.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:31 pm
Sounds like Kap is trying to discredit John Jagerson to me. Sure would like to see Kap post his real name so we can see who and what he is. Anyone doubts Jagerson's credentials, then look him up. He is who he says he is and I think that's a good start for all of us to see. These ______'s need to be called out big time IMO..
Go RI/RV..
Go RI/RV..
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Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:35 pm
supergirl wrote:@greenlight - well good luck with that .... you still have time to sell and get out why haven't you? there are way too many positives that i see compared to the negatives. i'm still all in. i believe the so called "youknowwho's" have cheapened this investment and they are responsible for making people like yourself lose hope. i'm sorry you are in this space.
No need to feel sorry for Greenlight. He/she is only speaking the truth and trying to get the people that live in snow globes where they are protected from truth's and reality, to wake up. If you are considering "positive information" that information coming from the ______'s, then God help us.. Please take the time to look up John Jagerson and see for yourself that this man is credible.
Go RI/RV..
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Re: Not Good News If True
by greenlight Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:35 pm
Are you kidding me? I mean really??? A Dinar dealer who tells us that we will make loads of money if we buy dinar? I about fell out of my chair reading this bunk.I leave you with this challenge to uncover, Ali Agha owner of DinarTrade used to purchase dinar direct from Trade Bank of Iraq. He said on numerous occasions that he talked to the Trade Bank several times a week (and that makes sense since he purchased from them) and they stated clearly to him that this would be an RV and not a LOP or RD. His words are on Dinar Daddy's recordings (think there are 4 or 5 that feature Ali). Listen and document this on your blog. That in itself is compelling, unless he lied. Then again, why would he spend millions buying a bank in Iraq, or buying real estate (exchange centers) if he did not believe this information?
He clearly has a huge misunderstanding about the so-called LOP and an RD. This is EXACTLY what the CBI has been saying for years. Is he simply blind to what he reads? I strongly suspect he simply is reading what he reads with RV colored glasses. He cannot possibly take away from all the CBI press releases that there will be no LOP and there will be no RD, but there will be an RV of up to 15000 fold... Are you kidding me???
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Re: Not Good News If True
by Purpleskyz Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:35 pm
I read the above at dinardouchebags.blogspot.com yesterday.
I also would love to see where Kuwait RV'ed. Can not find a single thread of truth on this, except a vague mention in 1993, but I don't think that was a real fact. Just more bs.
Also would love a list of the 132-150 other countiries waiting to RV. Seems they do not exist except in the minds of the ones that shall continue to remain nameless by me.
People are becoming awake an this and other "investments" are being seen in the real light.
I also would love to see where Kuwait RV'ed. Can not find a single thread of truth on this, except a vague mention in 1993, but I don't think that was a real fact. Just more bs.
Also would love a list of the 132-150 other countiries waiting to RV. Seems they do not exist except in the minds of the ones that shall continue to remain nameless by me.
People are becoming awake an this and other "investments" are being seen in the real light.
*****************
Out Of Mind
www.oom2.com
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Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:37 pm
go kap ... go rv ... go kap ... go rv!!!
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Re: Not Good News If True
by greenlight Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:37 pm
supergirl wrote:@greenlight - well good luck with that .... you still have time to sell and get out why haven't you? there are way too many positives that i see compared to the negatives. i'm still all in. i believe the so called "youknowwho's" have cheapened this investment and they are responsible for making people like yourself lose hope. i'm sorry you are in this space.
Did you even read what I said as my reasons for not selling? Did you??? And yet you ask why I haven't?
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Re: Not Good News If True
by roadkingrider Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:39 pm
sandwedge wrote:supergirl wrote:@greenlight - well good luck with that .... you still have time to sell and get out why haven't you? there are way too many positives that i see compared to the negatives. i'm still all in. i believe the so called "youknowwho's" have cheapened this investment and they are responsible for making people like yourself lose hope. i'm sorry you are in this space.
No need to feel sorry for Greenlight. He/she is only speaking the truth and trying to get the people that live in snow globes where they are protected from truth's and reality, to wake up. If you are considering "positive information" that information coming from the ______'s, then God help us.. Please take the time to look up John Jagerson and see for yourself that this man is credible.
Go RI/RV..
I just researched him...He seems very credible to me which means he could very well be right and so all of our hopes and dreams would be crushed. I have no reason to believe that he is not telling the truth. But Kap, Breitling, Med and a few others seem point on to me just as much as Mr Jagerson. So we shall see and hopefully soon
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Re: Not Good News If True
by greenlight Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:41 pm
supergirl wrote:go kap ... go rv ... go kap ... go rv!!!
Yep.. and just keep on going... He does more harm than good - if indeed there is any good to be seen.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by LookingAtTheHeavens Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:41 pm
Kap is throwing down! I knew part of the misdirection was to bring in experts to drive away speculators.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:42 pm
@greenlight - i read what you said were your reasons for being here on the dinar forum. that still doesn't explain why you haven't gotten your money back or sold if you so strongly believe that this isn't going to amount to anything. that baffles me. if i have bought something and i don't think its going to benefit me i return it or sell it. i no longer have any use for it.
go rv ... go rv... go
go rv ... go rv... go
Last edited by supergirl on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Not Good News If True
by greenlight Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:44 pm
MLM 101... remember the garden of Eden.. just enough truth to make you believe it.roadkingrider wrote:sandwedge wrote:supergirl wrote:@greenlight - well good luck with that .... you still have time to sell and get out why haven't you? there are way too many positives that i see compared to the negatives. i'm still all in. i believe the so called "youknowwho's" have cheapened this investment and they are responsible for making people like yourself lose hope. i'm sorry you are in this space.
No need to feel sorry for Greenlight. He/she is only speaking the truth and trying to get the people that live in snow globes where they are protected from truth's and reality, to wake up. If you are considering "positive information" that information coming from the ______'s, then God help us.. Please take the time to look up John Jagerson and see for yourself that this man is credible.
Go RI/RV..
I just researched him...He seems very credible to me which means he could very well be right and so all of our hopes and dreams would be crushed. I have no reason to believe that he is not telling the truth. But Kap, Breitling, Med and a few others seem point on to me just as much as Mr Jagerson. So we shall see and hopefully soon
This is exactly what MLM folks do. They give you just enough and only what sounds great to lure you in.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by greenlight Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:46 pm
Because I would lose up to 5 grand if I did... I'd rather take a chance on not losing that much by waiting than to certainly lose that much by selling now.supergirl wrote:@greenlight - i read what you said were your reasons for being here on the dinar forum. that still doesn't explain why you haven't gotten your sold and gotten your money back if you so strongly believe that this isn't going to amount to anything. that baffles me. if i have bought something and i don't think its going to benefit me i return it or sell it. i no longer have any use for it.
go rv ... go rv... go
Last edited by greenlight on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:46 pm
purpleskyz wrote:I read the above at dinardouchebags.blogspot.com yesterday.
I also would love to see where Kuwait RV'ed. Can not find a single thread of truth on this, except a vague mention in 1993, but I don't think that was a real fact. Just more bs.
Also would love a list of the 132-150 other countiries waiting to RV. Seems they do not exist except in the minds of the ones that shall continue to remain nameless by me.
People are becoming awake an this and other "investments" are being seen in the real light.
I believe the ______'s have now raised the basket to 195*(seen)199 countries. What a joke. People are waking up and good for them. Time to see some names from these _____'s so we can really see who we have been listening to. Kudos to Randy Koonce and Adam Montana. ZNow what about the rest of them..
Go RI/RV...
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Re: Not Good News If True
by jerrickjay Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:47 pm
Sounds like bs to me so much info on this guy back ground....it's all to make people give up.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by Purpleskyz Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:54 pm
sandwedge
the site that i cited in the above has a lot of info on who the ones that will still remain nameless by me as to their real names and identities also. Funny with all of the search engines how much one can find out for free with regards to how many have fraud claims against them also. Happens to be real interesting reading.
the site that i cited in the above has a lot of info on who the ones that will still remain nameless by me as to their real names and identities also. Funny with all of the search engines how much one can find out for free with regards to how many have fraud claims against them also. Happens to be real interesting reading.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by sandwedge Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:57 pm
purpleskyz wrote:sandwedge
the site that i cited in the above has a lot of info on who the ones that will still remain nameless by me as to their real names and identities also. Funny with all of the search engines how much one can find out for free with regards to how many have fraud claims against them also. Happens to be real interesting reading.
I'll check it out. thx's..
Go RI/RV..
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Re: Not Good News If True
by therealbutterfly Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:59 pm
greenlight wrote:Are you kidding me? I mean really??? A Dinar dealer who tells us that we will make loads of money if we buy dinar? I about fell out of my chair reading this bunk.I leave you with this challenge to uncover, Ali Agha owner of DinarTrade used to purchase dinar direct from Trade Bank of Iraq. He said on numerous occasions that he talked to the Trade Bank several times a week (and that makes sense since he purchased from them) and they stated clearly to him that this would be an RV and not a LOP or RD. His words are on Dinar Daddy's recordings (think there are 4 or 5 that feature Ali). Listen and document this on your blog. That in itself is compelling, unless he lied. Then again, why would he spend millions buying a bank in Iraq, or buying real estate (exchange centers) if he did not believe this information?
He clearly has a huge misunderstanding about the so-called LOP and an RD. This is EXACTLY what the CBI has been saying for years. Is he simply blind to what he reads? I strongly suspect he simply is reading what he reads with RV colored glasses. He cannot possibly take away from all the CBI press releases that there will be no LOP and there will be no RD, but there will be an RV of up to 15000 fold... Are you kidding me???
Whats even funnier is that Ali from Dinar Trade has said that the articles ARE saying they will lop, tho HE doesnt believe it will. BIG difference there.
Kaperoni is quite bold to claim he is the ONLY ONE who ever brought PROOF it will RV and all that other nonsense in his list. I still want to see the PROOF it wont lop. Bear said he has proof but never shared it. Wish he would.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by therealbutterfly Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:02 pm
jerrickjay wrote:Sounds like bs to me so much info on this guy back ground....it's all to make people give up.
So a legitimate trader, educator, etc you dont believe, but you believe an MLM scammer and frauds? That makes NO sense......
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Re: Not Good News If True
by crawdaddy2x22 Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:06 pm
This threard is why we should keep bring all info in from anywhere. As many of you have stated there are only a handful of people in the whole world that know how this is really going to play out, so in the mean time why not get all the info we can. I'm the first one to bash the pumpers, cry with the lopers, and then wait with the rest of you. I hate it that the ____'s stay in closet and won't reavel who thet are, but I guess if I was invested as heavy as they claim to be I understand. I just pray that their motives are true. Thats whats hard about this investment, the people that are against it are visable, out in the open and can be googled. The guys we need to be right are ghosts.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by CaptnJerry Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:09 pm
therealbutterfly wrote: I still want to see the PROOF it wont lop. Bear said he has proof but never shared it. Wish he would. [/color][/size]
TRB, I must disagree! Bear and Kap are 100% right when they say it won't LOP..........
But that's only because there is no such thing as a LOP... The process is called Currency Re-Denomination...
http://dinardaily.forumotion.com/t17481-re-denomination-a-very-real-possibility-and-it-s-nothing-to-be-afraid-of
CJ
*****************
Inspired by Splovengates "Be ready between sunday and monday night, or maybe tuesday or wednesday, could also be thursday but definitely by friday.... probably next week, monday or late tuesday night, wednesday morning to hear the rv and should be cashing in on the following tuesday the 1st part of january or february. Sooner more than later. But no later than the beginning of 2013. Certainly not before then. Until then, let's enjoy the ride!
Come on RI/RV!
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Re: Not Good News If True
by jahlives Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:13 pm
[/quote]
http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/102253-an-interview-with-john-jagerson/page__pid__830114__st__0&#entry830114
Dont know who Sam is...Sorry[/quote]
------
Thank you so much for sharing this discussion. We owe it to ourselves to research different viewpoints on this venture.
I am reminded of a conversation that I had recently where I expressed to someone that the Federal Reserve Note got its value from the full faith and credit of the people. That fiat currency then became more powerful around the globe than even its creators imagined, using tricky math - fractionalized banking. If we can have faith in that, why is it impossible to believe that a currency that can be backed by real wealth (e.g. oil, gold) will not revalue and transfer wealth into the hands of the people to whom it was promised? The Creator uses the foolish things to confound the wise, so I hope that nobody will doubt your investment because someone says that this has never been done before or that it is unlikely. Who would have thought that the deal that was made on Jekyll Island was likely? Well, it happened and has resulted in total economic devastation for this generation. We must all educate ourselves on this dinari speculation and at the same time, stand strong in our convictions. Peace.
http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/102253-an-interview-with-john-jagerson/page__pid__830114__st__0&#entry830114
Dont know who Sam is...Sorry[/quote]
------
Thank you so much for sharing this discussion. We owe it to ourselves to research different viewpoints on this venture.
I am reminded of a conversation that I had recently where I expressed to someone that the Federal Reserve Note got its value from the full faith and credit of the people. That fiat currency then became more powerful around the globe than even its creators imagined, using tricky math - fractionalized banking. If we can have faith in that, why is it impossible to believe that a currency that can be backed by real wealth (e.g. oil, gold) will not revalue and transfer wealth into the hands of the people to whom it was promised? The Creator uses the foolish things to confound the wise, so I hope that nobody will doubt your investment because someone says that this has never been done before or that it is unlikely. Who would have thought that the deal that was made on Jekyll Island was likely? Well, it happened and has resulted in total economic devastation for this generation. We must all educate ourselves on this dinari speculation and at the same time, stand strong in our convictions. Peace.
*****************
LOVE IS MY RELIGION
WE ARE ONE!COME DINAR RI/RV, NOW!!! :farao:
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Re: Not Good News If True
by therealbutterfly Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:14 pm
Smartypants lol*****************
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Re: Not Good News If True
by greenlight Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:14 pm
CJ, we are simply using their terms. They say LOP = raizing the 3 zeros.CaptnJerry wrote:therealbutterfly wrote: I still want to see the PROOF it wont lop. Bear said he has proof but never shared it. Wish he would. [/color][/size]
TRB, I must disagree! Bear and Kap are 100% right when they say it won't LOP..........
But that's only because there is no such thing as a LOP... The process is called Currency Re-Denomination...
http://dinardaily.forumotion.com/t17481-re-denomination-a-very-real-possibility-and-it-s-nothing-to-be-afraid-of
CJ
I have said numerous times that they way they define the LOP is how it will NOT happen, and in that sense they are right.
However, the raizing of the 3 zeros WILL happen, just not the way they describe.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by maestro Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:19 pm
KNOW DOUBT THE MAN IS CREDENTIALED AND ENTITLED TO
HIS OPINION BUT,AT THE END OF THE DAY DR. SHABIBI IS THE ONLY
OPINION THAT SHOULD MATTER! JUST COMMON SENSE I THINK....
GO RVVVV..
HIS OPINION BUT,AT THE END OF THE DAY DR. SHABIBI IS THE ONLY
OPINION THAT SHOULD MATTER! JUST COMMON SENSE I THINK....
GO RVVVV..
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Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:20 pm
jahlives wrote:
http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/102253-an-interview-with-john-jagerson/page__pid__830114__st__0&#entry830114
Dont know who Sam is...Sorry[/quote]
------
Thank you so much for sharing this discussion. We owe it to ourselves to research different viewpoints on this venture.
I am reminded of a conversation that I had recently where I expressed to someone that the Federal Reserve Note got its value from the full faith and credit of the people. That fiat currency then became more powerful around the globe than even its creators imagined, using tricky math - fractionalized banking. If we can have faith in that, why is it impossible to believe that a currency that can be backed by real wealth (e.g. oil, gold) will not revalue and transfer wealth into the hands of the people to whom it was promised? The Creator uses the foolish things to confound the wise, so I hope that nobody will doubt your investment because someone says that this has never been done before or that it is unlikely. Who would have thought that the deal that was made on Jekyll Island was likely? Well, it happened and has resulted in total economic devastation for this generation. We must all educate ourselves on this dinari speculation and at the same time, stand strong in our convictions. Peace.[/quote]
OMG, so beautifully well said....well done. Thank you.
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Re: Not Good News If True
by CaptnJerry Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:20 pm
greenlight, I know... I was giving TRB a hard time... It was a joke...
CJ
CJ
*****************
Inspired by Splovengates "Be ready between sunday and monday night, or maybe tuesday or wednesday, could also be thursday but definitely by friday.... probably next week, monday or late tuesday night, wednesday morning to hear the rv and should be cashing in on the following tuesday the 1st part of january or february. Sooner more than later. But no later than the beginning of 2013. Certainly not before then. Until then, let's enjoy the ride!
Come on RI/RV!
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Re: Not Good News If True
by supergirl Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:21 pm
maestro wrote: KNOW DOUBT THE MAN IS CREDENTIALED AND ENTITLED TO
HIS OPINION BUT,AT THE END OF THE DAY DR. SHABIBI IS THE ONLY
OPINION THAT SHOULD MATTER! JUST COMMON SENSE I THINK....
No doubt Shabbs is the man ... GO RV!!!
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