Re: BREITLING POST: " THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THE NOTE & THE RATE AT SAME TIME", 24 JAN

by therealbutterfly Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:26 pm

awilliams wrote:you don't have to LOP 3 zeros from the already legitimate currency to "RE-DENOMINATE". All you have to do is start introducing smaller notes and then base the RV on this factor.

Loping 3 zeros of the already legitimate currency is FRAUD in my opinion.

Revaluing the currency in consideration of whats already been printed and then adjusting the smaller denominations accordingly in the correct and logical approach. (again in my opinion)

If this means they need to RV at a more reasonable rate to allow for all this, fine. I just feel this is more appropriate and "fair play".

Not sure why you think its FRAUD if they were to redenominate/lop. Its the norm for currencies that dont reflect the current inflation rate. There is a full process that happens and thats what Iraq has been going thru. There is no fraud since no one loses anything as far as the people that matter and thats iraq. Now we, as investors, over paid for the most part for this currency and we might get screwed.

I would LOVE a dime per dinar honestly but based on the assets and reserves and rates of neighboring countries, I doubt they would be that low. PERSONALLY I think a straight lop makes the m2 too LOW also. I feel they need to be more in the 1.5-2.5 trillion range. But thats me.

I just want ONE person to show me a country that did a straight revaluation at a high rate of their currency that has denominations in excess of 3 o's (meaning 1k,5k,10k,25k etc). So far I have not found anything like that.......

by geezer Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:34 pm

AT THIS POINT ILL TAKE 10 CENTS IM SO BUMMED OUT IVE HAD A MILD STROKE IN 2010 BECOUSE OF THIS STRESFUL STUFF I HAD TO STEP BACK FOR A WHILE NOW THIS REALLY BITES !!!!!!! Embarassed

by awilliams Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:05 pm

My intent was to say that Loping 3 zeros off the currency feels fraudulent in terms of its effect on investors.

This is why I say that issuing the smaller denoms makes sense but in my opinion they should not LOP the old currency.

Considering the M2, they should factor this into the RV. Once people start cashing in, they will retrieve much of these larger bills and can reprint more smaller denoms to take their place.

I just think that lots of folks (myself included) will be severely disappointed if they LOP the zeros of the old currency which WILL affect their bottom line net value after RV.

I imagine there will be lots of people upset and raising a fuss about it if this in fact comes to be.

by therealbutterfly Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:15 pm

awilliams wrote:My intent was to say that Loping 3 zeros off the currency feels fraudulent in terms of its effect on investors.

This is why I say that issuing the smaller denoms makes sense but in my opinion they should not LOP the old currency.

Considering the M2, they should factor this into the RV. Once people start cashing in, they will retrieve much of these larger bills and can reprint more smaller denoms to take their place.

I just think that lots of folks (myself included) will be severely disappointed if they LOP the zeros of the old currency which WILL affect their bottom line net value after RV.

I imagine there will be lots of people upset and raising a fuss about it if this in fact comes to be.

Thats just it, its NOT for investors, its for their COUNTRY. And whats best for their country. I think if there were not the dealers here or the internet forums promoting this, it would have been like Turkey where only some bought it and made nothing. Not the MILLIONS that hold the IQD.

Now remember that if they have an m2 of 30 trillion, and they rv at 1:1, that means they need to have enough (even in fractional banking) to cover at least a % of that money. Do they have enough to do that? Based on reports they have 60 bill usd in reserves. Now I know there is more as far at the DFI and frozen assets and oil reserves etc but just how is that all calculated in the scheme of things I dont really know.

If they dont lop before they rv then you got people with $25,000 or more in their pocket. AND there would be no need to have 2 pricing structures like they are planning. All of their actions say they will lop and it DOES upset me. I have been in this since Nov 2003 and it would SUCK to not get a dime out of this which is what I was hoping for. But oh well, I cant change things....

by dinarling77 Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:20 pm

awilliams wrote:My intent was to say that Loping 3 zeros off the currency feels fraudulent in terms of its effect on investors.

I just think that lots of folks (myself included) will be severely disappointed if they LOP the zeros of the old currency which WILL affect their bottom line net value after RV.
I imagine there will be lots of people upset and raising a fuss about it if this in fact comes to be.

Welcome to OOM, awilliams. While I understand where you are coming from, I'm afraid you don't quite see the whole picture.

Iraq doesn't give a hoot about your investment, heck they don't even care about their own people. They have been fighting and killing each other since biblical times. They've endured some of the worst governments (if you can call dictatorship government). They didn't destroy the value (real or imagined) of the dinar. And they certainly did not in anyway commit fraud by trying to convince you, or any of us that you could spend $1,200 and make $7 - $14 million practically overnight.

They will RV when the time is right at the rate that they (shabs) feel is justified, so don't be looking for an astronomical ROI or you may be very well be extremely disappointed!

by CaptnJerry Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:25 pm

awilliams wrote:My intent was to say that Loping 3 zeros off the currency feels fraudulent in terms of its effect on investors. It's not about the investors, its about Iraq!

This is why I say that issuing the smaller denoms makes sense but in my opinion they should not LOP the old currency. The smaller denoms/new currency is to replace the old/current currency...

Considering the M2, they should factor this into the RV. Once people start cashing in, they will retrieve much of these larger bills and can reprint more smaller denoms to take their place. Why pay trillions for the larger notes when they don't have to? Would you spend trillions of dollars to reclaim money that your just going to make obsolete when you could just delete it like you've been saying your going to do all along? Try to look at this realistically and economically.

I just think that lots of folks (myself included) will be severely disappointed if they LOP the zeros of the old currency which WILL affect their bottom line net value after RV. It isn't about us, never has been, never will be! Again, the value of the currency will not change when it redenominates, but afterwards it will either appreciate up or be RV'd to be up around the Kuwaiti dinar!

I imagine there will be lots of people upset and raising a fuss about it if this in fact comes to be.

CJ

by awilliams Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:43 pm

Yes understood. Thanks everyone for the comments and insight.

I certainly agree that if it were not for the dealers and forums this would not be getting the attention it has, especially IF this discussion is in fact what happens.

I understand that someone walking around with a $25,000 note in their pocket is impractical, but this is why I hoping that they would simply just introduce new smaller denoms alongside in order to address this problem.

Investor or not, by Loping anyone owning a 000 note is getting screwed. (Iraqi´s alike)

Its what I meant by "they" just declaring that the old notes are not what they say they are.

I don't know of anyone whom bought Dinar under the premise that the 000´s don't count...

by therealbutterfly Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:49 pm

Investor or not, by Loping anyone owning a 000 note is getting screwed. (Iraqi´s alike)

No one except those expecting to make a profit gets 'screwed". If you are an Iraqi, then NOTHING changes for you. Its just an accounting thing. Where before you were paying 25,000 for a toaster, now you pay 25. before you were making 10,000 an hour now you make 10. Either way its all even for you. Bank accts get adjusted, loans get adjusted, salaries get adjusted, and prices get adjusted. If they didnt redenominate first, then its a huge mess with regards to all of it.

by CaptnJerry Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:51 pm

When the value as of today for a 25K note is roughly $23 USD and when the currency redenominates that 25K note or the replacement 25 note will be worth roughly $25 USD, just exactly how is anyone getting screwed? By "anyone" I mean the Iraqi people that this is for...

EXACTLY TRB

CJ

by awilliams Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:30 pm

TRB & CJ. Yes I see your points.

So the obvious question that arises is, Is there absolutely no premise to the IQD realizing any true value increase at all under a 1:1 scenario? I mean if all they do is LOP the zeros, this makes the money more street friendly, but there is NO increase in value at all? (different than what it is at now) hence no investment opportunity at all unless it goes up to par with the Kuwait Dinar in which case you might see a 3 or 4 to 1.

How in the heck then is thing getting so much attention and hype? And WHY is everyone not talking about this HUGE AND OBVIOUS ELEPHANT in the room (the re-denomination) instead of worrying about when it RV´s?

CJ, I understand that there is no change in "Value" on a per Dinar basis with re-denomination, but to LOP the zeros off sure rips the rug out from underneath the amount of Dinars we own.

If this info about the re-domination surfaced in 2006 and the Iraqi government has been saying all along that this is there intent and process procedure when RV hits, then how can these Dinar dealers not factor in, disclose, or indicate any of this into their materials and info regarding this currency? There is no a word about this in any of the TampaDinar info I received about this scenario. I know they are in the business of selling currency for a spread, but my gosh.....

In fact, I asked DinarBanker about this last week and they simply said, "there is no official indication from Iraq about re-denomination at this time"

BTW, everyone I am not trying to stir the hornets nest here, I am simply attempting to address this directly. I apologize if my comments seem somewhat "ignorantly behind" as opposed to some of you that have been involved in this for much longer.

by **Kevind53** Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:58 pm

awilliams wrote:New Dinar appreciate in value to be somewhere around the Kuwaiti dinar (currently $3.69 USD - 1KD). When it gets to that point, we will have tripled or quadrupled our initial investment... I don't know about you, but that's one heck of a return on an investment!

Yes CJ, 369% return is very good, BUT when you consider this over the scope of 8 to 9 years, it is not that phenomenal. If I had 8 years to do it, I probably could have sold lemonade on the corner and achieved this ROI or more.

My only point is that the "HYPE" that's been perpetuated behind this investment does not match the potential being described here IF in fact this is the resulting scenario.

Kind of makes me think that there is something more here not completely understood....

Your math is all wrong. Assuming a rate of 3.69USD/1IQD then the return is much higher. The current exchange rate is roughly .00086USD/1IQD. Many have talked of a 1:1 rate.That would yield roughly a 1200% return. A 3.69 rate would be more on the order of a 4200% ROI. Not too shabby. :study:

by therealbutterfly Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:06 pm

Kevin, CJ was referring to the NEW dinar being on a 1:1 ratio. Not the old notes like we have.

by zonepirate Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:13 pm

awilliams wrote:
How in the heck then is thing getting so much attention and hype? And WHY is everyone not talking about this HUGE AND OBVIOUS ELEPHANT in the room (the re-denomination) instead of worrying about when it RV´s?

That is simple... if the re-denomination is put forth as the most likely option dinar sales dry completely up... no more huge monthly profits of of the "it's happening tomorrow" frenzy. Nobody is going to make a risky investment when the return per $1000 invested might be $2000 or $3000 at most. Simple economics and the articles showing what the Iraqi's have been saying about deleting the zeros is being ignored or dismissed as misinformation. IMO most of what you see put out as "intel" is either wishful thinking by well meaning but mislead individuals. Some is pure pumping of dinar sales

by geezer Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:38 pm

WELL ONE THING I LIKE THE VIETNAM DONG DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A LOP...... bigsmile

by LookingAtTheHeavens Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:00 pm

I feel bad for the people selling their Dinar because of the LOP misinformation.

by therealbutterfly Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:07 pm

LookingAtTheHeavens wrote:I feel bad for the people selling their Dinar because of the LOP misinformation.

Anyone buying or selling based on what people say without doing their OWN research deserves what they get. Thats why there are so many dinar holders in general. People buy based on what they are told without any research. They get in then start to learn then start to question. When I got in this, redenomination/lop was not on the table. Since 2006 it has been. Anyone ignoring the option is fooling themselves.

PERSONALLY, anyone selling because of a chance of a lop is cuttin themselves short. What is the purpose to sell out now at a loss? When even if it lops, it stands the chance of raising in value so you would make more than you would by selling. Makes NO sense to sell, even with the lop "scare".

by geezer Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:11 pm

LookingAtTheHeavens wrote:I feel bad for the people selling their Dinar because of the LOP misinformation.

YOU GOT TO ADMIT A LITTLE BIT .THAT THIS HAS ALWAYS SOUNDED TO GOOD TO BE TRUE ,....IVE BEEN IN THIS LONGER THAN MOST . IVE HEARD OF THIS SINARIO LONG BEFORE NOW .AND THE WAY THE UM UMM YOU KNOW THOSE GUYS ..SAYING ITS HAPPENING EVERY DAY..!!! THAT WHAT WEVE BEEN DISCUSSING IN HERE TODAY ,THAT THIS SEEMS MORE REALISTIC .PEOPLE CAN DO WHATS BEST FOR THEM SELVES AS WILL I. NOT SAYING IM SELLING ALL OF IT BUT MORE LIKE DEVERSIFYING A LITTLE.. lol!

by bobd Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:22 pm

I WILL NOT ACCEPT A LOSS ON MY DINAR INVESTMENT, I WILL JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE COOLEST WALLPAPER ON THE BLOCK.

by CaptnJerry Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:29 pm

LookingAtTheHeavens wrote:I feel bad for the people selling their Dinar because of the LOP misinformation.

That's why TRB and myself are trying to educate everyone on exactly how the currency re-denomination works and that it's nothing to be afraid of!!! You/everyone will make money, should triple, quadruple or more your investment depending on when you purchased your dinar. Money will be made, just not the unrealistic numbers being thrown around by "those who shall remain nameless"...

CJ

by geezer Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:42 pm

MAN YOU GUYS FALL FOR ANYTHING coffee

by dinarling77 Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:01 pm

CaptnJerry wrote:Money will be made, just not the unrealistic numbers being thrown around by "those who shall remain nameless"...CJ

didn't get the word yet, CJ? Well let be the first to inform you.

Those who shall remain nameless, aka GURU GURU GURU has been deleted from the banned list. For national security, please don't ask for my sources, but she likes green M&M's

by CaptnJerry Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:11 pm

Thanks dinarling77, I know, I saw that earlier but I actually like using "those who shall remain nameless"! Calling them the "g" word is like me giving them some semblance of credibility, which I refuse to do!

CJ

by LookingAtTheHeavens Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:23 pm

CaptnJerry wrote:
LookingAtTheHeavens wrote:I feel bad for the people selling their Dinar because of the LOP misinformation.

That's why TRB and myself are trying to educate everyone on exactly how the currency re-denomination works and that it's nothing to be afraid of!!! You/everyone will make money, should triple, quadruple or more your investment depending on when you purchased your dinar. Money will be made, just not the unrealistic numbers being thrown around by "those who shall remain nameless"...

CJ

I believe God has great plans for us on this earth and it won't be possible in this financial prison the Devil has helped man create. A couple of hundred dollars won't change anything. God doesn't perform small miracles. I have faith.

On a side note, I hope those that are very certain of a LOP are at least mentally prepared for a RV or have good hearts. It would be a shame for such a blessing to be marred by a hospital visit.

by **greenlight** Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:38 pm

CaptnJerry wrote:geezer, this is about Iraq, remember that... The other countries invloved will make money off of this just like we will and with the ammount they supossedly hold it will be a lot, but where they will make the big money is in the behind the scenes oil contracts that they have with Iraq... You know the ones that are supossedly already in place where they are only paying $32-36 a barrel thats worth $100+ and Iraq is producing 2.5 million barrels a day... That's where the real money will be made... JMHO

CJ

CJ, I have heard this touted numerous times by thos in the supposd know. However, I have never seen any proof.
Consider this: The Iraqi budget had to be backed off to 117 trillion dinar (about 100 billion USD) and is based on the projected earnings of $100 USD per barrel.
They jut recently signed an oil contract with the US (can't recall what the numbers were), but the US is getting the bulk of the oil produced. If we are going to pay only $32-34 a barrel, how can they possibly base their bufget off $100/barrel?
Makes me think that the $32 a barrel is just smoke.
Tell me where I went wrong.

by CaptnJerry Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:52 pm

I really haven't kept up very much with the budget figures as it hasn't been passed or approved, so we really won't know the numbers until its published. Also, it may not be figured into this budget. It could be going into the 2013 budget. All of the monetary reform articles state 2013, so who knows... You very well could be right about this being smoke. The thought of the US getting cheap oil makes the most sense to me though... One fact that can't be ignored it that we helped Iraq for the oil! Not the RV, but for the oil cause that's where the money is! JMHO

CJ