This "note count" BS is just that -more BS!

This "note count" BS is just that -more BS! It's another attempt at detraction from the real problem of too much currency in circulation and is, as usual, just a twisting of the facts. The note count has nothing to do with the value and reducing the note count does NOT reduce the money supply, the gurus would have you believe that the fewer notes in circulation then the higher the value because the wealth would not be spread as thin but again that's pure 100% UDA certified BS!!!!! People it's the numbers of DINAR, currently 30 Trillion in just the physical currency, that matters not how many pieces of paper it's printed on! The new 50,000 note due to be issued will reduce the note count but the value of the Dinar will NOT change because of it. A million Dinar in 10,000 denominations is 100 notes, by reducing the note count with 25,000 Dinar notes the count is reduced from 100 to only 40 but it's STILL THE SAME STINKIN ONE MILLION DINARS as before!!!!!!! Buying back the currency also does exactly nothing to solve the problem, for every 1166 Dinars brought back in the reserves are reduced by one Dollar, be it a physical Dollar or a Dollars worth of Gold it makes no difference, Iraq can't just "suck in" the currency without compensating the holder at the official exchange rate so the currency vs reserves ratio does NOT CHANGE! 


How can these idiot gurus say this goofy nonsense and get so many people to fall for it? Are people really so desperate to believe that this scam is somehow possible that they will believe ANYTHING these idiots say?


Actually whenever Iraq has mentioned the note count it is usually along with the redenomination, or "LOP", and it's mentioned as one of the main benefits of doing the "LOP" (deletion of zeros). They point out that because of the new value of the NEW (NOT THE OLD!) Dinar the citizens won't need to carry around as many bills as they do now, that's the main reason for "deleting the zeros" in the first place but as has been pointed out repeatedly it's a value neutral event  -an even-up swap.

Love it when you post!

MAJORITY OF TNT MEMBERS AND OTHER POOROO MEMBERS:

Actually we HAVE seen a small reduction since the first of the year, (about 2%). So there is some truth, albiet seen through RV colored glasses, to what they say.

Kevind53 wrote:Actually we HAVE seen a small reduction since the first of the year, (about 2%). So there is some truth, albiet seen through RV colored glasses, to what they say.

No, I will have to respectfully disagree because there is zero truth in what they are saying and the point they are attempting to make! The idea the gurus are attempting to get across is that the fewer notes means higher value because the wealth is not spread as thin but that's just flat out wrong, it might have some merit if there was just one denomination but of course that's not the case at all. There is ZERO correlation between the physical note count and the money supply, reducing the number of notes in circulation only means that on average each note represents a higher number of Dinars. Just like the example I gave with the 10,000 vs the 25,000 it's either 100 notes or 40 notes but the value is exactly the same 1,000,000 Dinars! The idea is to issue fewer but larger notes, hence the new 50,000 that's due to be released, but the sum total represents the SAME MONEY SUPPLY! It's only meant as a means of reducing the physical size of the bundle of paper a citizen is required to carry to make a purchase, it in no way affects the sum he has to carry or prices. It's simply a matter of carrying a few large notes or many small ones but the total is the same.


Actually they usually refer to the zero deletion (LOP) as a means of reducing the note count but again it's only the advantage of fewer but more valuable new notes (New notes, NOT the old, the old does NOT increase in value!) vs the burden of the low valued notes they have now. With the NEW Dinar being 1000 times more valuable than the old (and the old exchanging 1000 old for 1 new) obviously the requirement of carrying a large bundle of notes is drastically reduced and that's why a reduction of the note count is heralded as a huge benefit to doing the zero deletion/LOP. This however is just a benefit of deleting the zeros NOT a means of doing so!


Yes there has been a slight drop in both the note count and the money supply at various times but both go up and down slightly which is normal, the over-all average is what matters and that has been UP!

Next subject, PLEASE?

terbo56 wrote:Next subject, PLEASE?

It would just be the same book with a different cover.

The gurus simply jump from one topic to another trying to divert attention from that enormous and insurmountable money supply but it's not going to go away unless they LOP, there simply is no other way around it no matter what they try to spin.

I agree, and it's shame alot of the so called 'googoos' can't see or understand, as they want to line their pockets with a paycheck to tell us all this shit, to keep peeps hyped- They'll go down just like the dinar sellers, esp. Sterling, it's just a matter of time, before they all hang-

The gurus are probably working for some jihad that's connected to the muslim brotherhood. I should of spent my money on garbage than 1dinar.

hithere wrote:The gurus are probably working for some jihad that's connected to the muslim brotherhood. I should of spent my money on garbage than 1dinar.

Whether or not any jihad group is involved, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least, there is no doubt that officials in Iraq were/are involved up to their ying yangs! There simply is no way they didn't know all those pallets of fresh uncirculated shrink wrapped bundles of 25,000 Dinar notes were leaving the country and they had to have known where they were headed, it's simply nuts to think otherwise! I could see maybe even a few Million new Dinars being smuggled out unnoticed but TRILLIONS???? Come on now, not a chance! They likely got slightly more than the official exchange rate to look the other way and so lined their pockets as well as the dealers, Iraqi officials are well known to do such as that so would it be any surprise?

Now the big question is did they ever intend to allow that currency back into the country? If they allow that currency to return they would have to return the Millions (actually highly likely to be billions!) of U.S. Dollars they sold it for so why would they want it back? Think about it, the sale of that currency added value to their currency by adding to the reserves and taking currency out of circulation, basically since it was out of circulation and not on the streets they simply traded worthless paper for solid U.S. Dollars so why would they want to give those Dollars back? As long as those Dinar don't return to Iraq all that cash they took in was simply free money and they can easily refuse to take it back and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it, they have done this before! It was under the Saddam reign but it's still the same principle, Iraqi law CLEARLY states that the Dinar is for use in Iraq and all they need to do is say it was illegally exported which is most likely true anyway! I can of course only guess at what they might do but IMO I doubt they will allow the re-entry of those Dinar, it would mean Millions or even Billions of Dollars to them and they have the means to legally deny it so why would they take it back, if we were Iraqis what would WE do???? Something to think about.

I am not going just by what "they" say, but multiple financial sources all of which report their M0, M1, and M2 all running about 2% lower. Not much I admit, but lower is lower.

Kevind53 wrote:I am not going just by what "they" say, but multiple financial sources all of which report their M0, M1, and M2 all running about 2% lower. Not much I admit, but lower is lower.

I hadn't checked it recently but a quick check shows this,


Iraq Money Supply M2 2003-2015 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

Money Supply M2 in Iraq decreased to 91360 IQD Billion in March from 91704 IQD Billion in December of 2014. Money Supply M2 in Iraq averaged 44647.77 IQD Billion from 2003 until 2015, reaching an all time high of 91704 IQD Billion in December of 2014 and a record low of 6953 IQD Billion in December of 2003. Money Supply M2 in Iraq is reported by the Central Bank of Iraq.

The money supply rises and falls occasionally and has never climbed a straight line on the chart, this is well within normal variation and means little or nothing and is not unusual at all for most any currency.


It's a matter of perspective, they went from 91.704 Trillion in December to  91.360 in March for a change of 44 Billion but let's look at that. That's a reduction of 44 BILLION Dinars from 91.704 Trillion but in order to back a 1 to 1 "RV" with their current reserves (let's assume they have 66 Billion) that 91.704 TRILLION would have to be reduced by 91 Trillion, 638 Billion!That means with only 66 Billion Dollars to back a 1 to 1 "RV"  that the current 91.36 TRILLION would have to be reduce from multiple TRILLIONS  to only a bit over a half a Trillion! Taken in that context the 44 BILLION reduction becomes a tiny reduction indeed!

Folks fail to look at these things in the proper perspective but when you look at the reduction in money supply that would be required to allow for any significant increase in the exchange rate that 44 Billion Dinar becomes woefully insignificant!

When I have pointed this out in the past to people the usual response has been "Oh no, no it CAN'T take that much of a reduction, that would be almost all of it"  Well that may be but that's what it takes, it may look unreasonable at first glance but we have to remember that Iraq has way over a thousand times more Dinars in their M2 than they have Dollars to back them with so with that in mind the math makes more sense, staggering I know but it is what it is! THAT'S why you can buy 1166 Dinars for a single Dollar bill and for no other reason in spite of the BS the gurus have gotten people to believe!

Of course a reduction like that is only possible by one, and ONLY one, method and that's the zero deletion/redenomination/LOP or whatever one wants to call it. Not surprisingly it's exactly the way Iraq has been telling the world it intends to deal with this enormous money supply and if, a big IF there, they ever get their affairs in order they will probably do this. It's an even swap and makes no one rich, in fact it's purposely meant to be a zero profit event, but it's simply absurd to think any nation could reduce the currency liabilities, the money supply, that drastically by any other means. Watching for occasional dips in the M1 or M2 means nothing and can never lead to any profitable change of the kind that would make Dinar holders any money.


BTW, any reduction in "note count" had nothing to do with any reduction in the money supply, the money supply is dependent on the numbers PRINTED on the notes and has nothing to do with how many pieces of paper is used to represent it! 100 10,000 notes or 40 25,000 notes and soon to be 20 50,000 notes, they all represent the same 1,000,000 Dinars so don't be taken in by more guru bullshit!

I do not think you read the statements from the CBI.  A lop is not at all what they are talking about.

"He added that the central bank a day in the initial exchange market (referring to the lack of a future market for the currency or market options) and expresses its readiness to secure the display of foreign currency (dollars) to cover the need for demand to ensure the strengthening of the national currency and gradually to maintain stability at the target in each stage or period of revaluation ranges."

http://alsabaah.iq/ArticleShow.aspx?ID=103363








Does that sound like a LOP?  lmbo

Muskie, thank you so much for your contributions today !  I am LOVING THEM !

muskie wrote:I do not think you read the statements from the CBI.  A lop is not at all what they are talking about.

"He added that the central bank a day in the initial exchange market (referring to the lack of a future market for the currency or market options) and expresses its readiness to secure the display of foreign currency (dollars) to cover the need for demand to ensure the strengthening of the national currency and gradually to maintain stability at the target in each stage or period of revaluation ranges."

http://alsabaah.iq/ArticleShow.aspx?ID=103363








Does that sound like a LOP?  lmbo

Iraq has REPEATEDLY said it intends to "delete the zeros" which most certainly IS a LOP and I challenge you to show us otherwise! Come on explain how Deleting the zeros is something besides a LOP and maybe you can explain how it's possible to reduce that enormous multi-TRILLION Dinar money supply down to a few Billion without LOPing it! Come on explain that one to us, I challenge you to!


Also if you think reducing the note count is going to reduce that money supply how about you explain that one too, go ahead I want to hear this!

Explain why Iraq has REPEATEDLY referenced Turkey as an example of how they intend to delete the zeros, Turkey was a "LOP" of even more zeros! Explain why Iraq has REPEATEDLY said it would be a value neutral event and the old currency would be alongside the new for a number of years and trade at a rate of 1000 old for 1 new! All of those things clearly describe a value neutral LOP (LOP being just slang for re-denomination). 


Besides Iraq, or any other country, would NEVER tell the world ahead of time about even a small increase in the official exchange rate, that would be economic suicide to tip off speculators ahead of time. Any time Iraq is talking about strengthening the exchange rate they are talking about the STREET RATE that they can't even get on a par with the official rate! They have taken desperate steps in the recent past, such as heavily limiting the auctions, to deal with this low UNOFFICIAL STREET exchange rate and THAT is what they have been talking about strengthening.

In the past whenever Iraq has referred to strengthening the OFFICIAL rate it has been linked to deletion of the zeros and they have on numerous occasions said that, then Dinarians get all giddy and excited and start yelling "SEE, SEE, they said they were going to increase the exchange rate"! Of course they ignore the fact that only applies to the NEW currency with the old remaining at the same rate to be traded at a rate of 1000 to 1.  

As I have said several times before cheering for deletion of the zeros is like the condemned cheering on the executioner!

Come on let's discuss this "Note count" and/or LOP/re-denomination/zero deletion or whatever you want to call it.