What it all boils down to

by **dwm007** Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:21 pm

There have been several posts concerning various aspects of the "investment" such as legalities of exports/ownership and protections for Dinar holders, ect. Also some discussion of whether the Dinar is going to "RV" to a higher value or simply gradually rise, lots of discussion about will it/can it rise and if so then by what method. What I would like to see is a thorough discussion about just how the Iraqis can pay out Trillions of Dollars at a $1 rate or even hundreds of Billions at a rate of a few cents when they have much less than $100 Billion in their reserves.

How much Dinar held by speculators around the world is not known precisely but it would simply be illogical to think it was less than several Trillion Dinars, we must consider that Sterling alone, by FBI accounts, recorded sales of over $600 Million over the years they were most active. That translates to 500 to 600 Billion Dinars or at the very least quite close to 500 Billion. That's just one outfit in one Country and not the largest dealer either! The point is there is little doubt there are TRILLIONS of Dinars held by untold thousands of speculators and ALL of these speculators are going to be demanding Dollars for their Millions of Dinars, that's DOLLARS, U.S. Greenbacks, they will not be wanting barrels of crude oil nor minerals in the ground or any other potential Iraqi wealth they will want Dollars and want them RIGHT NOW!

So that brings us to the question, just where do these Trillions of Dollars come from? how is Iraq going to pay Trillions, or at least hundreds of Billions, when they have well under $100 Billion Dollars to pay with? And that would be giving every cent they have to speculators and having no reserves left!

How about it? Before ANY of that other stuff folks have been arguing about even matters in the least the Dinar has to increase drastically in value, can we all agree on that much?

Please folks, let's try to have no condescending replies and let's try to respect everyone's opinion.

by **clayf** Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:41 pm

Yes I too would think the same thing. How to pay out such a large number. I think it was'nt suposed to play out as it has.It went on(the dinar purchases for to long)I had my first purchase in early 2009 and maybe then it may have worked but now,six years + later. Well here we sit. I think! it was called the Marshall plan (correct me if I'm wrong,anybody)But thats a good one to look up and read.basically it talks of bombing a place into submission.The currency collapses to next to nothing,you grab on to a bunch of that currency, rebuild the country, get it back on its feet, the currency that you got for nothing now climbs to a new high and booyah your rich.So far NOT us Crying or Very sad

by **dwm007** Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:03 pm

Plain and simple there never was a "RV" ever planned except in the minds of speculators. After the fall of Saddam and the initial start of rebuilding in Iraq for a brief time the future looked good and people, mostly contractors and soldiers in Iraq, started buying Dinars on the rumor that it would soon increase in value as Iraq's economy grew which they expected it to do fairly rapidly. Of course a growing economy is no guarantee of significant exchange rate increases but that didn't matter, the rumor, as rumors are prone to do, spread like wildfire and when these folks came back from Iraq their friends and families wanted in on this too! This thing was a scammer's dream come true, add to that the internet and the rest is history! Gurus invented the "RV", at first it was just "it's soon going to be worth more" then the scammer stories started, the mythical Kuwaiti "RV" (that never happened but that's a different story) to all the other incredibly nonsensical scam material the gurus dreamed up to keep people buying Dinar. The truth is the "RV" has always been impossible and has from the very beginning been nothing more than a scam artist's fairy tale!

by **kenlej** Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:26 am

1. How come hyper-inflation has not consumed the dinar?
2. How has their exchange rate remained so stable? After all it is raised to fight inflation right? How come there has been no movement?
The answer to me is obvious. They have been exporting their currency. I have been able to calculate a very conservative number of slightly over 25 trillion dinar outside of Iraq’s border. I have read in some places and some currency experts claim Iraq exported 30 trillion. If that is the case then this means that there is really only about 4 to 5 trillion in circulation within Iraq’s borders. Not bad for a currency that is only supposed to be used in Iraq! This is why hyper-inflation has not collapsed the currency. This is why the exchange rate has been so stable. This is why their reserves have been growing at a faster pace than normal. They have been exporting their currency!
This is from Marcus Curtis of Iraq Currency Watch https://iraqcurrencywatch.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/dinar-recap/ Where do u think Iraq has gotten its USD reserves of 80 billion from? From fools buying their shit paper with real money LMAO All of u have been made into suckers LMAO What it all boils down to 3508649203

by **kenlej** Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:37 am

clayf wrote:Yes I too would think the same thing. How to pay out such a large number. I think it was'nt suposed to play out as it has.It went on(the dinar purchases for to long)I had my first purchase in early 2009 and maybe then it may have worked but now,six years + later. Well here we sit. I think! it was called the Marshall plan (correct me if I'm wrong,anybody)But thats a good one to look up and read.basically it talks of bombing a place into submission.The currency collapses to next to nothing,you grab on to a bunch of that currency, rebuild the country, get it back on its feet, the currency that you got for nothing now climbs to a new high and booyah your rich.So far NOT us

Tell me one country that has happened too without a Redomination where u turn in your hyperinflated currency at a value of 1 to 1 so nobody gets rich. It sure didn't happen in Kuwait were their currency stayed internationally the same https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwaiti_dinar #mediaviewer/File:KWD_against_USD.PNG omg

by **RamblerNash** Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:44 am

@kenlej

Is this the picture you wanted posted?

by **dwm007** Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:50 am

kenlej wrote:1. How come hyper-inflation has not consumed the dinar?
2. How has their exchange rate remained so stable? After all it is raised to fight inflation right? How come there has been no movement?
The answer to me is obvious. They have been exporting their currency. I have been able to calculate a very conservative number of slightly over 25 trillion dinar outside of Iraq’s border. I have read in some places and some currency experts claim Iraq exported 30 trillion. If that is the case then this means that there is really only about 4 to 5 trillion in circulation within Iraq’s borders. Not bad for a currency that is only supposed to be used in Iraq! This is why hyper-inflation has not collapsed the currency. This is why the exchange rate has been so stable. This is why their reserves have been growing at a faster pace than normal. They have been exporting their currency!
This is from Marcus Curtis of Iraq Currency Watch https://iraqcurrencywatch.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/dinar-recap/ Where do u think Iraq has gotten its USD reserves of 80 billion from? From fools buying their shit paper with real money

I have seen estimates of as much as 15 Trillion Dinars in circulation in Iraq but it's very likely even the Iraqis can't pin it down exactly since a heck of a lot of circulating currency was smuggled out. Still it doesn't matter, it's a known fact that Iraq could not possibly have as much Dinar in circulation on the streets as they have printed, not even close, so where is all that paper? Gurus are fond of saying that Iraq is lying about the figures but are they really? First even if they did cook the books they couldn't fake it by many TRILLIONS! We also know what their economy was when the U.S. was helping to put the Government and economy back together immediately after the war. Basically they were worse than just broke and Saddam had not only squandered all of Iraq's wealth fighting wars (remember they had just come out of a ten year war with Iran shortly before invading Kuwait) and buying massive weapons systems but he had driven them deeply into debt. It took a massive infusion of U.S. Dollars to jump start their economy and since then we KNOW how much oil they have exported and how much they were paid for it, they have almost no income except for oil so if they have all that "hidden" cash where did it come from?

There is no doubt at all about Iraq's reserves nor is there any doubt about the massive amounts of paper they have had printed (this was contracted out of the country so they can't be lying about the numbers there!) so where is all this physical Dinar? Well for starters just one dealer alone (Sterling) sold an estimated (based on FBI documents) half a Trillion and that's just one dealer in one country and there are dealers who have sold a lot more than that! One dealer during the buying frenzy between 2010 and 2012, to show potential customers they had ample stock on hand, had pictures of wooden pallets heaped with bundles of fresh crisp 25,000 Dinar notes, which are of course worth 25,000 Dinars EACH!

TRILLIONS of Dinar printed and less than $100 Billion in reserves to back it with so again I ask, just where are all those Dollars supposed to come from?

by **dwm007** Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:27 am

kenlej wrote:
clayf wrote:. It sure didn't happen in Kuwait were their currency stayed internationally the same https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwaiti_dinar #mediaviewer/File:KWD_against_USD.PNG

We have all heard of the big "Kuwaiti RV" and many arguments have ensued about whether it happened or not with supporters of the myth pointing at the extremely low price of the Kuwaiti Dinar during the occupation, that however is a typical "apples/oranges comparison". What happens is that people are comparing the blackmarket rate of the Kuwaiti Dinar during the occupation to the official exchange rate of the Iraqi Dinar today. That's two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT things! The OFFICIAL exchange rate of the Kuwaiti Dinar never changed one cent during that time and they had to do nothing but change the paper to void stolen currency, the rate was the same before, during and after the occupation! Compare that to Iraq where the currency is OFFICIALLY exchanged and dealt with at the low rate and this is low not because of lost faith such as was the case (illegal blackmarket ONLY!) in Kuwait but rather it's due to inflation from massive over printing. There simply is no comparison what-so-ever to what happened to the Kuwaiti Dinar during the occupation and what's happening to the Iraqi Dinar in Iraq today!

The situation was that Kuwait's official rate, the one that matters, never changed and the blackmaret rate was an illegal unrecognized rate that was entirely dependent on changing political situations and was not controlled by either the Kuwaiti Government or the central bank nor was that rate used in any official trade or exchange. The Government didn't do ANYTHING to increase the exchange rate they simply resumed doing business and reopened the banks without changing the exchange rate by one cent, the blackmarket trade in Kuwaiti Dinar then simply disappeared so there never EVER was a Kuwaiti "RV", the Kuwaitis NEVER EVER "RVed" anything at any time!

In Iraq's case the official rate and the street rate are nearly the same and in order for the rate to increase would require that Iraq take drastic measures, unlike Kuwait who had to do nothing. Iraq could, theoretically anyway, allow the rate to gradually rise but from where it is now to an amount that would even cover the spreads speculators paid to dealers would take DECADES and that is only IF they can get their act together and quit blowing up each other, good luck with that!

Why would it take decades for the Dinar to increase any significant amount? That's a good subject for another discussion but basically it could only increase as reserves rise (no they can not "suck in" Dinar through the auctions as is often touted, that's not the way things work) and the CBI would NEVER allow it to rise at any steady rate that would attract speculation, that would be economic suicide even if the reserves grew fast enough to support such an event.

by MD13 Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:43 am

dwn007 your so in a no life world tunnel,

its sad. Almost feel sorry for you.

An ugly loser with nothing better to do and no idea on how international currency really works. The Dinar outside of Iraq will never, ever return to iraq for exchange if its .25 or 10.00.

Your a joke with just no life, women or real true friends and its so obvious. Sad

by **RamblerNash** Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:52 am

MD13 wrote:
dwn007 your so in a no life world tunnel,
its sad. Almost feel sorry for you.

An ugly loser with nothing better to do and no idea on how international currency really works. The Dinar outside of Iraq will never, ever return to iraq for exchange if its .25 or 10.00.

Your a joke with just no life, women or real true friends and its so obvious. Sad

by **dwm007** Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:32 pm

MD13 wrote:
dwn007 your so in a no life world tunnel,
its sad. Almost feel sorry for you.

An ugly loser with nothing better to do and no idea on how international currency really works. The Dinar outside of Iraq will never, ever return to iraq for exchange if its .25 or 10.00.

Your a joke with just no life, women or real true friends and its so obvious. Sad

Spoken like a true guru fed Dinarian,LOL!

You are once again displaying exactly the type of TOTALLY PREDICTABLE behavior I described from most Dinarians whenever they are faced with something they have absolutely no way of explaining. Ask yourself this (I already know the answer) why is it that the ONLY thing you can do is yell and shout petty insults like a 10 year old kid? Why is that? Why dd you not address the things I said directly and point out what you think is wrong? I will tell you why, because you can't!

Whether I am right or wrong makes no difference, you still don't have a clue as to why I would be wrong and you are incapable of doing anything except shouting and slinging childish insults, YOU are the joke and you just make a stronger case for it with every post you make!

Come on now, stop acting like a child and let's debate this thing, that's all I ask let's talk about it or is that why you are so angry, you don't like what you see and have nothing to debate it with? I am more than willing to say what I think and back it up wherever I can so why won't you what are you afraid of?

BTW, I am not such a loser I am quite handsome, I have a comfortable income and an absolutely gorgeous wife for the last 35 years!, LOL!!!!

by **Ssmith** Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Cindy.... It's really time for you to put the big girl panties on and GROW UP! You are making yourself look really foolish now. I mean, you were looking pretty foolish the other day too, but this is just getting silly. You got your butt kicked yesterday and now you're back for more? That makes zero sense. Schoolyard taunts are only effective on children. We aren't children here.

by **dwm007** Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:45 pm

Ssmith, do you know this person? I am beginning to think maybe we have just been talking with a kid from some were because I am seeing no adult behavior at all. Seriously, something is wrong here besides the typical disappointed Dinarian hysteria.

by **Ssmith** Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:55 pm

dwm007 wrote:Ssmith, do you know this person? I am beginning to think maybe we have just been talking with a kid from some were because I am seeing no adult behavior at all. Seriously, something is wrong here besides the typical disappointed Dinarian hysteria.

Only from here! "Cindy813" joined the other day with similar nonsense. That lasted for two or three days, then she quit posting and "MD13" joins and picked up where Cindy left off.

I'm not that familiar with mental disorders, but obviously we are dealing with someone with some issues. Everyone has been extremely patient with her....but this is really getting pointless. You and others have tried to engage her in a serious conversation and she comes back with abject nonsense. I don't know......She's just a game playing twit.

by **dwm007** Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:06 pm

Well I am going to just "dis-engage", you know the old saying "if you wrestle a pig you both get muddy"! There is no point in trying to converse with with someone who can't seem to put together a single logical statement and as I said already this has gone way beyond the usual Dinarian argument of "well you're wrong, it's some other way I don't know what other way but it's just GOT to be some other way"!

by **Ssmith** Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:12 pm

dwm007 wrote:Well I am going to just "dis-engage", you know the old saying "if you wrestle a pig you both get muddy"! There is no point in trying to converse with with someone who can't seem to put together a single logical statement and as I said already this has gone way beyond the usual Dinarian argument of "well you're wrong, it's some other way I don't know what other way but it's just GOT to be some other way"!

Probably the smart thing to do. I imagine she'll get bored and go find somewhere else to play.

by **dwm007** Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:37 pm

People such as that are accustomed to the typical guru site where only "positive thoughts" are allowed with any and all dissent being immediately censored or outright banned, I mean Heaven forbid that "negativity" be allowed to contaminate their little Hopium parlor!

I don't get it, do these people think that if common sense and logic are discussed that it will somehow diminish their chances of this thing happening? Do they think that by not discussing these possibilities that they will simply go away? Discussing these issues is the best way I can think of to bring out the facts and truth, if someone can show me where I am wrong and that thousands of people are about to become rich then hey I'm all for it, bring it on! I have family members and two good friends who are up to their ying-yangs in this mess, thus my interest it. I would love nothing more than to see these people become wealthy, I don't give a rat's behind about being right or wrong but I do care about the people I love!

Go ahead MD, I posted my opinion with the invitation for open and serious discussion and even asked that we be polite about it yet I was met with a tirade of nonsensical rants! MD, you can make your point by discussing the issues, right or wrong, but you will not make your point by simply calling me ugly, by doing that you only make mine!

by **kenlej** Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:19 pm

dwm007 wrote:
kenlej wrote:1. How come hyper-inflation has not consumed the dinar?
2. How has their exchange rate remained so stable? After all it is raised to fight inflation right? How come there has been no movement?
The answer to me is obvious. They have been exporting their currency. I have been able to calculate a very conservative number of slightly over 25 trillion dinar outside of Iraq’s border. I have read in some places and some currency experts claim Iraq exported 30 trillion. If that is the case then this means that there is really only about 4 to 5 trillion in circulation within Iraq’s borders. Not bad for a currency that is only supposed to be used in Iraq! This is why hyper-inflation has not collapsed the currency. This is why the exchange rate has been so stable. This is why their reserves have been growing at a faster pace than normal. They have been exporting their currency!
This is from Marcus Curtis of Iraq Currency Watch https://iraqcurrencywatch.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/dinar-recap/ Where do u think Iraq has gotten its USD reserves of 80 billion from? From fools buying their shit paper with real money

I have seen estimates of as much as 15 Trillion Dinars in circulation in Iraq but it's very likely even the Iraqis can't pin it down exactly since a heck of a lot of circulating currency was smuggled out. Still it doesn't matter, it's a known fact that Iraq could not possibly have as much Dinar in circulation on the streets as they have printed, not even close, so where is all that paper? Gurus are fond of saying that Iraq is lying about the figures but are they really? First even if they did cook the books they couldn't fake it by many TRILLIONS! We also know what their economy was when the U.S. was helping to put the Government and economy back together immediately after the war. Basically they were worse than just broke and Saddam had not only squandered all of Iraq's wealth fighting wars (remember they had just come out of a ten year war with Iran shortly before invading Kuwait) and buying massive weapons systems but he had driven them deeply into debt. It took a massive infusion of U.S. Dollars to jump start their economy and since then we KNOW how much oil they have exported and how much they were paid for it, they have almost no income except for oil so if they have all that "hidden" cash where did it come from?

There is no doubt at all about Iraq's reserves nor is there any doubt about the massive amounts of paper they have had printed (this was contracted out of the country so they can't be lying about the numbers there!) so where is all this physical Dinar? Well for starters just one dealer alone (Sterling) sold an estimated (based on FBI documents) half a Trillion and that's just one dealer in one country and there are dealers who have sold a lot more than that! One dealer during the buying frenzy between 2010 and 2012, to show potential customers they had ample stock on hand, had pictures of wooden pallets heaped with bundles of fresh crisp 25,000 Dinar notes, which are of course worth 25,000 Dinars EACH!

TRILLIONS of Dinar printed and less than $100 Billion in reserves to back it with so again I ask, just where are all those Dollars supposed to come from?

That's over 5 trillion not a half of trillion dinar $500,000,000 x 1100 and that's just 1 dealer The dealers love the dinarians What it all boils down to 3508649203

LMAO

by **dwm007** Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:10 pm

500,000,000x1000 would be 500 Billion (500,000,000,000) wouldn't it? 500 Billion is a half Trillion?

$600,000,000 is a staggering amount of money that would buy an awfully big heap of 25,000 Dinar notes regardless! Wow, $600 Million no wonder those dealers are willing to do what they do! I understand that's not all profit but with the ridiculous profit margins on sales they had to have been making a killing!

Dang all those zeros give me a headache!

by **kenlej** Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:51 am

dwm007 wrote:500,000,000x1000 would be 500 Billion (500,000,000,000) wouldn't it? 500 Billion is a half Trillion?

$600,000,000 is a staggering amount of money that would buy an awfully big heap of 25,000 Dinar notes regardless! Wow, $600 Million no wonder those dealers are willing to do what they do! I understand that's not all profit but with the ridiculous profit margins on sales they had to have been making a killing!

Dang all those zeros give me a headache!

LMAO LIKE U SAID WHATEVER IT IS IT'S A LOT OF MONEY LMAO I GET MIXED UP AFTER A 1000 LMAO omg

by **dwm007** Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:07 pm

Trillions of Dinar backed by less than 100 Billion Dollars so where do the Dollars to pay for a "RV" come from?

So far there have been no suggestions as to how this can be possible so maybe we can examine some of the guru poo-poo versions of how this is supposed to be done?

I think the most popular is that Iraq won't have to pay and the U.S. Government will buy it's citizens' Dinars to use to trade for cheap oil at a later date so how about we look at that one?

First of all WHY would they do this? Why would the U.S. (or any) Government wait until the value went up and then buy it? Why not buy all the Dinar they need now (or all of it for that matter)? Cheap oil? No way! But why? Well let's look at that.

First and most important is what would they do with it? The U.S. Government only buys oil for it's own use, they ARE NOT IN THE OIL BUSINESS!!!!!! Private oil concerns imports oil, that is the BIG OIL companies import oil NOT the Government for domestic use! There are NO U.S. Government owned oil companies selling gas or any other petroleum products in the United States! There are NO U.S. Government refineries in the country so what would they do with that oil? There is no Government distribution system or agency that would distribute imported oil to these private companies that refine and sell it so if the Government bought all this import crude how would it get to market? How would the Government benefit from doing any of this?

Oil and petroleum is a private industry in this country and while the Government does indeed buy crude for it's own use and also for the strategic reserves it would take hundreds of years to for them to need trillions of dollars worth! And then WHY would it be cheaper? Oil is bought and sold in U.S. Dollars (thus the petro Dollar) but WHY would Iraq lower the price of crude if it were to be paid for in Dinars? WHY would it be cheaper?

Of course the gurus spout the "Dinar for cheap oil" BS all the time hoping their clueless followers won't question the explanation and apparently, and sadly, that seems to be the case

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