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NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
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NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by TS Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:00 pm
This information was given to us by a member. I have printed a hard copy and will present this to my tax attorney and CPA for clarification.
new tax info for foreign currency
[6:43:14 PM] Rozzi MLM: [6:46 PM] Rozzi MLM:
<<< No tax due...could this be???
Friends - This came from a reliable source but he wished to stay anonymous. As he says verify for yourself but he did intentionally go right to the IRS. Subject: GOOD NEWS: - no direct tax on Dinar or Dong conversions. Have authorities re-verify this.
Friends:
When you convert Dinar to US dollars, you are not selling anything that brings taxable capital gain. You aren’t selling a house, or stock, or any of the normal capital-increasing gains. The IRS read-out below states this, and it makes sense.
Suppose that you never cash in your Dinar. You could simply fly to Iraq and spend the Dinar there to buy cars, boats, TVs, and lots of cell phones (for example).
At cash-in time, (after the RV) you are merely converting one currency to another – Dinar converts into US dollars. Assuming the RV has occurred, the dollars you get when you convert them have the same value as the Dinar. You won’t get anymore or less than exactly the newly assigned value of the Dinar.
Therefore the IRS states below that no capital gains tax is due when you cash-in Dinar. Read carefully the IRS findings shown below and verify them for yourself.
Beware - if you put your US dollars into an interest bearing bank account (for even one day), you will gain interest and you will owe tax on the interest gained for that one day. It’s best to deposit your dollars into a non-interest-bearing bank or credit union account.
Examine this IRS opinion regarding form 8938.
The form was designed to identify people with off-shore
Bank accounts or LLCs, or Corporations and get them
To reliably report their holdings.
Fortunately, none of the hype [about form 8938] applies to private citizens who happen to be holding foreign currency such as the Dinar or Vietnam Dong.
IRS statements regarding Dinar follow:
I, [xxx,yyy], took the time to call the IRS [Special Accounts Division]. I spoke to a supervisor named Ms. Theresa Klier (Employee# 1000349035). She informed me that this form 8938 has been in existence since June of this year [2011], following attempts by speculators in recent months to shield themselves from federal levies.
This obligation to report income that people derive from foreign currency accounts [bank accounts in other countries that hold non-US currencies] didn’t suddenly become law last week. [Reporting on your offshore accounts has been an IRS requirement for a long time.]
She said that the IRS is targeting a specific group of individuals who, until now, have been hiding assets with the specific intent of avoiding taxation by the Treasury Department. Per Ms. Klier, the federal government requires individuals to complete Form 8938 only under the following circumstances:
You need to deposit into NON interest bearing accounts,
1) If you hold stock issued by a foreign corporation [because stocks eventually may generate capital gains when they are sold and US tax will be due.]
2) If you earn capital or have accrued interest from profits earned through a foreign partnership
3) If you hold notes, bonds, debentures or other debt instruments issued by a foreign entity
[ because notes and bonds produce capital gain sooner or later – for which you will owe US tax.]
4) If you’ve earned interest in a foreign trust or a foreign estate [tax on interest will be due – even in a US bank account.]
5) If you hold options or other derivative instruments with respect to any of the forgoing examples or with respect to any currency or commodity that’s entered into with a foreign counter-party or issuer.
[For example Forex Traders who use a computer to buy and sell currencies, are not converting [Francs] from one currency to another. Forex traders can buy 1000 Swiss Francs (a real purchase) and then sell them back ten minutes later, hoping to have made a profit. Tax will be due on that profit. In contrast, Dinar holders aren’t selling anything when they convert Dinar to US dollars. The US dollars will be exactly equal to the value of the Dinar – assuming the RV has been announced.]
***I made a point of asking [IRS Klier] if currency secured through a licensed currency trader [like Dinar Banker] would bring a private citizen under the purview of the laws that Form 8938 is designed to enforce and she said “NO”.
Other than the conditions referenced above, Dinar holders are only obliged to turn in Form 8938 if they purchased the currency directly from a foreign agent or a foreign bank or agent operating outside of our borders***
Since various phone calls to the IRS have in the past produced a variety of answers, please seek local verification of the interpretations above.
Tax for capital gains produced in 2012 are not fully due until April of 2013, but quarterly payments are demanded throughout the year, and late penalties for missing the quarterly payments are very real.
Some people will probably choose to simply pay a flat 15% to the IRS as a safe action. (fine)
Seek verification in writing that the five points above are trustworthy.
Two separate people on two separate occasions obtained the points above. Brackets above are my clarifying inserts.........THE END
new tax info for foreign currency
[6:43:14 PM] Rozzi MLM: [6:46 PM] Rozzi MLM:
<<< No tax due...could this be???
Friends - This came from a reliable source but he wished to stay anonymous. As he says verify for yourself but he did intentionally go right to the IRS. Subject: GOOD NEWS: - no direct tax on Dinar or Dong conversions. Have authorities re-verify this.
Friends:
When you convert Dinar to US dollars, you are not selling anything that brings taxable capital gain. You aren’t selling a house, or stock, or any of the normal capital-increasing gains. The IRS read-out below states this, and it makes sense.
Suppose that you never cash in your Dinar. You could simply fly to Iraq and spend the Dinar there to buy cars, boats, TVs, and lots of cell phones (for example).
At cash-in time, (after the RV) you are merely converting one currency to another – Dinar converts into US dollars. Assuming the RV has occurred, the dollars you get when you convert them have the same value as the Dinar. You won’t get anymore or less than exactly the newly assigned value of the Dinar.
Therefore the IRS states below that no capital gains tax is due when you cash-in Dinar. Read carefully the IRS findings shown below and verify them for yourself.
Beware - if you put your US dollars into an interest bearing bank account (for even one day), you will gain interest and you will owe tax on the interest gained for that one day. It’s best to deposit your dollars into a non-interest-bearing bank or credit union account.
Examine this IRS opinion regarding form 8938.
The form was designed to identify people with off-shore
Bank accounts or LLCs, or Corporations and get them
To reliably report their holdings.
Fortunately, none of the hype [about form 8938] applies to private citizens who happen to be holding foreign currency such as the Dinar or Vietnam Dong.
IRS statements regarding Dinar follow:
I, [xxx,yyy], took the time to call the IRS [Special Accounts Division]. I spoke to a supervisor named Ms. Theresa Klier (Employee# 1000349035). She informed me that this form 8938 has been in existence since June of this year [2011], following attempts by speculators in recent months to shield themselves from federal levies.
This obligation to report income that people derive from foreign currency accounts [bank accounts in other countries that hold non-US currencies] didn’t suddenly become law last week. [Reporting on your offshore accounts has been an IRS requirement for a long time.]
She said that the IRS is targeting a specific group of individuals who, until now, have been hiding assets with the specific intent of avoiding taxation by the Treasury Department. Per Ms. Klier, the federal government requires individuals to complete Form 8938 only under the following circumstances:
You need to deposit into NON interest bearing accounts,
1) If you hold stock issued by a foreign corporation [because stocks eventually may generate capital gains when they are sold and US tax will be due.]
2) If you earn capital or have accrued interest from profits earned through a foreign partnership
3) If you hold notes, bonds, debentures or other debt instruments issued by a foreign entity
[ because notes and bonds produce capital gain sooner or later – for which you will owe US tax.]
4) If you’ve earned interest in a foreign trust or a foreign estate [tax on interest will be due – even in a US bank account.]
5) If you hold options or other derivative instruments with respect to any of the forgoing examples or with respect to any currency or commodity that’s entered into with a foreign counter-party or issuer.
[For example Forex Traders who use a computer to buy and sell currencies, are not converting [Francs] from one currency to another. Forex traders can buy 1000 Swiss Francs (a real purchase) and then sell them back ten minutes later, hoping to have made a profit. Tax will be due on that profit. In contrast, Dinar holders aren’t selling anything when they convert Dinar to US dollars. The US dollars will be exactly equal to the value of the Dinar – assuming the RV has been announced.]
***I made a point of asking [IRS Klier] if currency secured through a licensed currency trader [like Dinar Banker] would bring a private citizen under the purview of the laws that Form 8938 is designed to enforce and she said “NO”.
Other than the conditions referenced above, Dinar holders are only obliged to turn in Form 8938 if they purchased the currency directly from a foreign agent or a foreign bank or agent operating outside of our borders***
Since various phone calls to the IRS have in the past produced a variety of answers, please seek local verification of the interpretations above.
Tax for capital gains produced in 2012 are not fully due until April of 2013, but quarterly payments are demanded throughout the year, and late penalties for missing the quarterly payments are very real.
Some people will probably choose to simply pay a flat 15% to the IRS as a safe action. (fine)
Seek verification in writing that the five points above are trustworthy.
Two separate people on two separate occasions obtained the points above. Brackets above are my clarifying inserts.........THE END
TS- New Member
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by doodoo Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:09 pm
I respectfully disagree with the premise stated that we will pay no tax on the gains made through the RV.
I do agree that the dirnar has absolutely nothing to do with the form 8398 unless it is held in a foreign account.
I do agree that the dirnar has absolutely nothing to do with the form 8398 unless it is held in a foreign account.
*****************
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by Bcolorad Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:17 pm
I agree with doodoo. I can't imagine uncle sam not coming after us for his cut. But I do remember hearing something along time ago that if you owned a house and sold it for a profit that you wouldn't get taxed on the profit if you purchased another home with the money. Maybe this is something along those lines. IDK but maybe
GO RV
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by madaussie Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:29 pm
Maybe just maybe-----this event is so unusual that the irs never got around to figuering out how to tax it?
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by H2OMAN Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:32 pm
Don't be fooled, there is a complete set of IRS rules and definitions in regards to Foreign Currency gains, separate from the Capital gains section. Those definitions include gains from exchanges made from personal use currencies and gains from speculative currency investments. Which are you? Hint....have you ever been to IRAQ?......it's easy to research online at the IRS webpage....Look it up for yourself and be sure to get professional advice...Federal Prison is not a resort experience....LOL.
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by Bcolorad Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:41 pm
H2OMAN wrote:Don't be fooled, there is a complete set of IRS rules and definitions in regards to Foreign Currency gains, separate from the Capital gains section. Those definitions include gains from exchanges made from personal use currencies and gains from speculative currency investments. Which are you? Hint....have you ever been to IRAQ?......it's easy to research online at the IRS webpage....Look it up for yourself and be sure to get professional advice...Federal Prison is not a resort experience....LOL.
I spent three years of my life in Iraq. Do I get a pass then? LOL
I'll hire a professional as all should IMHO
Thanks for the info
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by 1alaskan Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:07 pm
doodoo wrote:I respectfully disagree with the premise stated that we will pay no tax on the gains made through the RV.
I do agree that the dirnar has absolutely nothing to do with the form 8398 unless it is held in a foreign account.
EXACTLY!
*****************
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Vos Savant
Yesterday would have been better, but today is a good day
Remember as always, JMHO
Rantings from just north of sixty
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by Big Mike Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:34 pm
Don't fall for that no tax thing on your investment,it must be an undercover irs man lieing to you so they can get all your money after a couple of years of you not paying your taxes on your dinar. it's there way of stealing all your money,giving you false since of hope that you dont have to pay taxes on your dinar. and come in after a couple of years and tell you that you owe back taxes your your money and all the fee's you racked on and poooof your money is gone....
PAY YOUR TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PAY YOUR TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*****************
The gurus sources are not in the KNOW, there just giving there opinion and speculation on the dinar. and the gurus are giving out opinions and speculation as high up Intel. Remember that when you read all the gurus Intel..
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by edlou Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:57 pm
Yes.. I agree pay the crooks..I mean the IRS there share..Makes life easier..
KEEP THE FAITH...
KEEP THE FAITH...
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by 1alaskan Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:00 pm
this is from another thead, but we should all take heed,
No matter what anyone - INCLUDING ME - tells you - SEEK A PROFESSIONAL
No matter what anyone - INCLUDING ME - tells you - SEEK A PROFESSIONAL
*****************
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Vos Savant
Yesterday would have been better, but today is a good day
Remember as always, JMHO
Rantings from just north of sixty
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by abby ann Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:04 pm
edlou wrote:Yes.. I agree pay the crooks..I mean the IRS there share..Makes life easier..
KEEP THE FAITH...
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by ou812 Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:04 pm
madaussie wrote:Maybe just maybe-----this event is so unusual that the irs never got around to figuering out how to tax it?
Whats so unusual about it, you buy foreign currency
hoping it goes up in value, it does you convert it at a profit, and bingo you have a taxable event.
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by 1alaskan Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:10 pm
ou812 wrote:madaussie wrote:Maybe just maybe-----this event is so unusual that the irs never got around to figuering out how to tax it?
Whats so unusual about it, you buy foreign currency
hoping it goes up in value, it does you convert it at a profit, and bingo you have a taxable event.
YEP, The only questions is at what rate it will be taxed, and we would know it the darned thing would RV.
*****************
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Vos Savant
Yesterday would have been better, but today is a good day
Remember as always, JMHO
Rantings from just north of sixty
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by bobd Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:49 pm
BOY! THAT WOULD GREAT. IM SURE THIS WOULD ONLY PRETAIN TO PUPLIC OFFICIALS.IMO
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by stevejss1 Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:08 pm
I also agree with The, doo doo! Have we forgotten the IRS rules concerning making over $500.00? profit in the exchange of one currency to another. Any profit made on the exchange of currency over I believe it is $300.00 to $500.00 IS A TAXABLE EVENT! That has been in play for E VE R. So don't even think about going down that road. BOTTOM LINE AT THIS POINT NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT INCLUDING ME THE IRS OR ANYONE ELSE. After the RV there will be a straight IRS RULING and what ever that ruling come out to be is exactly what we will do. So other than putting away 35 to 40% for taxes and hoping for 15% there is nothing else to talk about on this subject until the RV happens, the rest will get you trouble you will never get out of! Blessings
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by 1alaskan Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:21 pm
Go to IRS PUB 525 page 33, it is there.
Foreign currency transactions.
If you have a gain on a personal foreign currency transaction because of changes in exchange rates you do not have to include that gain income unless it is more than $200. If the gain is more than $200, report it as a capital gain.
Foreign currency transactions.
If you have a gain on a personal foreign currency transaction because of changes in exchange rates you do not have to include that gain income unless it is more than $200. If the gain is more than $200, report it as a capital gain.
Last edited by 1alaskan on Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
*****************
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Vos Savant
Yesterday would have been better, but today is a good day
Remember as always, JMHO
Rantings from just north of sixty
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by alohajim Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:49 pm
Dangerous information, by the way, the IRS doesn't have anything to do with creating taxes, they just collect them. Focus on the real crooks, the goons we elected.
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by Peppermint Patti Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:01 pm
Think it would pay for all of us to get a professional in this area.. If you don't owe it why would you pay it? There have been so many different opinions because their code is written to be confusing so need an expert. I would hire one that is bonded and has E&O Insurance, then if something goes wrong - meaning they give you the wrong advise, they are covered and the insurance will pick up the tag.
I definately want to do what is true and correct so that is the path we will take.
Peppermint Patti...
___________________________________________________________
"Only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last."
___________________________________________________________
I definately want to do what is true and correct so that is the path we will take.
Peppermint Patti...
___________________________________________________________
"Only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last."
___________________________________________________________
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by DevaronDLH Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:15 pm
If the IRS does not know, and we don't know lets not make up our own negative rules... A man told me just two days ago that he is going "to pay his tax"... and I asked him, "What tax would that be... and how much are you going to offer?"
Just asking...
If someone on this website actually knows the answer to these question please share the info...
If NO ONE KNOWS then lets not get scared and start running around like Chicken Little... the sky is falling... the sky is falling, OMG!!!!!
In other words Don't make it up, don't just offer to give your money away to anyone including the IRS... If their is a tax law they will surely tell you what it is, and you and I won't have to guess.
Just asking...
If someone on this website actually knows the answer to these question please share the info...
If NO ONE KNOWS then lets not get scared and start running around like Chicken Little... the sky is falling... the sky is falling, OMG!!!!!
In other words Don't make it up, don't just offer to give your money away to anyone including the IRS... If their is a tax law they will surely tell you what it is, and you and I won't have to guess.
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by stevejss1 Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:43 pm
Thanks 1 alaskan I was not sure of the exact amount but new it was a taxable event. Blessings Stevejss1
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by Trac Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:43 pm
IRS Form
Everyone makes what we will be taxed on this currency exchange so complicated.
IRS publication 525 page 33 Foreign currency transactions is very clear.
Foreign currency transactions. If you have a gain on a personal foreign currency transaction because of changes in exchange rates,you do not have to include that gain in your income unless it is more than $200. If the gain is more than $200, report it as a capital gain.
Get a good tax attorney and this is probably what you will be paying for your currency exchange.
Everyone makes what we will be taxed on this currency exchange so complicated.
IRS publication 525 page 33 Foreign currency transactions is very clear.
Foreign currency transactions. If you have a gain on a personal foreign currency transaction because of changes in exchange rates,you do not have to include that gain in your income unless it is more than $200. If the gain is more than $200, report it as a capital gain.
Get a good tax attorney and this is probably what you will be paying for your currency exchange.
Last edited by Trac on Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by DevaronDLH Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:51 pm
Thank you "trac" for the information...I hope other will also benefit from it.
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by Trac Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm
Click here to download Pub 525
You are Welcome. This is probably one of the easiest paragraphs in all IRS publications to understand.
Very short and to the point. Located in the middle collum of page 33 about half way down the page.
DevaronDLH wrote:Thank you "trac" for the information...I hope other will also benefit from it.
You are Welcome. This is probably one of the easiest paragraphs in all IRS publications to understand.
Very short and to the point. Located in the middle collum of page 33 about half way down the page.
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Re: NEW TAX INFO ON FOREIGN CURRENCY
by Kevind53 Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:32 pm
Peppermint Patti wrote:Think it would pay for all of us to get a professional in this area.. If you don't owe it why would you pay it? There have been so many different opinions because their code is written to be confusing so need an expert. I would hire one that is bonded and has E&O Insurance, then if something goes wrong - meaning they give you the wrong advise, they are covered and the insurance will pick up the tag.
I definately want to do what is true and correct so that is the path we will take.
Peppermint Patti...
___________________________________________________________
"Only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last."
___________________________________________________________
Great wisdom here ... get a good, make that a very good tax professional, and make sure they have all the requisite certifications and insurances. Our tax code is so complex that if you ask 5 experts at the IRS you'll get 6 opinions, so don't try to figure it out yourself ... CYA at all times.
*****************
Trust but Verify --- R Reagan
"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you."1 Thessalonians 5:14–18
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tax law
by prosetian Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:55 pm
I might agree with all but the last sentence. If you can get the IRS to tell you what law makes you liable for the Income Tax, please get it for me. If I am not mistaken, there is about $100,000 (no RV required) in rewards still posted for anyone who can come up with that law.DevaronDLH wrote:If the IRS does not know, and we don't know lets not make up our own negative rules... A man told me just two days ago that he is going "to pay his tax"... and I asked him, "What tax would that be... and how much are you going to offer?"
Just asking...
If someone on this website actually knows the answer to these question please share the info...
If NO ONE KNOWS then lets not get scared and start running around like Chicken Little... the sky is falling... the sky is falling, OMG!!!!!
In other words Don't make it up, don't just offer to give your money away to anyone including the IRS... If their is a tax law they will surely tell you what it is, and you and I won't have to guess.
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