GEORGE W : People are still cleaning up the mess you left behind.

First of all let me say that I have voted  both for Republicans as well as Democrats in my life at all levels including the Presidency. I use my best judgement and vote for who I believe will be the best person for the job. 

I voted twice for George W. and now having looked back at his presidency I'm very sorry I did , especially the second term. 

I think history fairly evaluates the legacy of Presidents usually best after many years of their departure and I believe that this guys legacy is becoming clearer and clearer as time passes and quite frankly I would rate him as one of the worst ever to serve. 

Let's look at some of the mess he created and left behind :

1) The financial crisis of 2008 : Due to irresponsible lack of regulations and oversight we were at the brink of economic collapse, housing bubble burst, derivative madhouse and brokerages and banks near collapse. 
The economy was shedding 750,000 jobs a month. Unemployment 9 % . The deficit exploded into unbelievable trillions. 

How would you like to take over such a quicksand and pull the nation ( & world markets) from this catastrophe ?? Well Obama
 and his team managed slowly but surely to do that. That's the facts jack ! 

2) W and his cohorts ( Cheney you POS I can't believe I once admired you ) lied to the world about weapons of mass destruction and spilled over the course of time, 2 trillion dollars and sacrificed our dear brave young women & men , thousands returned home maimed and suffering emotional & physical trauma. We should also not forget the tremendous destruction of Iraq and the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost there. Sure Saddam was no angel BUT looking back now can we honestly say it's now better off ?  I think not. Looking back we had no business putting our noses into this. 

And today we can see the chaos of what "Iraq" is. And our current administration (Sir W),  is still reluctantly involved and still costing us lives, immeasurable suffering and money. Thank you W. 

How about the corruption of W's administration ? Don't forget that Halliburton won a "NO BID" contract to take care of "Misc" operations" throughout Iraq. And just before being named VP our buddy Cheney had been CEO of Halliburton. Something smelled fishy and still reeks today W (and Cheney ). 

At least W. KNOWS the complete mess he left Obama and has been a gentleman in terms of criticizing the current President. Cheney, on the other hand has been a loud mouth critic since the first day he left. You've really showed your true colors there Mr. VP !!  You are as responsible as W and you have a lot of gaul criticizing anyone. 

You know I'm sick and tired of listening to idiot Republicans criticizing our current President. Kantor : You got what you deserve : A ticket home !Hopefully the same will be true for Boehner, Mitch McConnell and the guy I despise the most :Ted Cruz !  You guys are the main reason your party is in shambles, you remind me of backward racist bigots of the 50's and early 60's. You guys are a disgrace IMHO and the main reason Congress has an approval rating of 8-9 %. 

Don't get me wrong I see a lot of hard headed knuckle heads on the democrat side too but you clowns really take the big prize. Unless your party can do a tremendous metamorphisis you will not win back the presidency for a long, long time. The notion that you can just by carrying the older white vote is long done. And the African Americans, Hispanics and others can see right through the bigotry that you so well project. 

All I hear from Republicans is that Obama can't and doesn't provide "LEADERSHIP". Pardon my french,  but "WHAT THE F*** DOES THAT MEAN ??? When these critics are pressed for "SPECIFICS" of what they would do differently, they have no answers or solutions. Recently Obama laid some pretty heavy sanctions against Putin. Really the Europeans are Putin's major trading partners and they are not even stepping up their duties. Yet Republicans want more & more. Really ?? 

And many of these clowns like McCain are just itching to get us involved in any war or mess they see. Sure, send our forces to Ukraine, to Libya, to Syria and sure let's start another massive campaign in Iraq. OH, and don't forget N. Korea and Iran : Let's Nuke the hell out of them and start WW III , the destruction of our planet. McCain has never seen a war he doesn't like. 

You know I'm not suggesting that Obama has handled everything to everyone's liking BUT for the most part I can't criticize much of his policies or actions. Who really would have done any better under the terrible cards he was dealt coming in ?

The part that annoys me most is that as Americans we saw, are seeing  and lived during a time where history is being made : We saw this nation elevate itself and put into office an African American. The world applauded this. And so sadly there are real nasty people who have made his every step difficult and have tried to trip him along the way. 

I have to ask sincerely this question ?  What is it about this real life American success story that you don't like ???

Where a young man overcame the hardship of not having two parents raising & supporting him. Where through his hard work went to the best University available, became a US Senator and eventually made history as our first African American President. He then worked tirelessly to save the nation from  economic collapse , has limited our involvement worldwide in other people's (nation's) affairs and has managed (slowly but surely) to some degree of economic recovery and reduced the unemployment picture. Critics claim that he's NOT respected throughout the world. BULLSHIT !! Check out his popularity rating worldwide, check out the admiration and respect that he, Secretary Clinton and now John Kerry have and have achieved. 

Is everything peachy- No of course not but considering all I have laid out a reasonable and objective person would surely admire a lot of what he's done. 

What is it about this American success story that you don't like ???

I'll make this prediction. Put it in a time capsule and read it 20-30 years from now. I'll bet all my dinar and then some that history will show Obama's presidency as favorable and admirable. 

It's really a shame , especially as Americans that we show a blind eye till long afterwards. 

Can you now really look back at W's presidency as successful ??

Florida Guy.

I am not gonna get into an argument here, and I'm not going to try to answer your screed point by point as I have neither the time or inclination. But you are wrong.

The financial mess has it's roots under Clinton and a Democratic majority in congress. They were the ones who mandated the banks participating in the Federal loan programs make loans irrespective of the borrowers credit history or ability to repay. They also authorized the bundling and derivatives that were necessary for it to work. It may have blown up under W, but Billy Boy and his cronies lit the fuse. 

If you think O has pulled out fat out of the fire, you are sadly mistaken. News flash, the fat's still in the fire, and he's managed to throw gasoline on it. Any "improvement" we have seen is just window dressing, the fundamentals are, if anything, worse than they were then. 

As to WMD. Sadam obviously had them, and used them. Don't believe me? Ask the Kurds. Based upon my research in publicly available sources of information available to date, I suspect a large quantity were smuggled out of the country. I suspect we have seen some of them used in Syria. No they didn't find much in Iraq, but they did find the labs used to make them, including some mobile labs with traces of the chemicals still present. The lame stream media never saw fit to cover that though, so it took a lot of digging to find that info.

I lay the mess we see now squarely at O's feet. He pulled out the troops before Iraq was ready for political expediency. The generals told him they were not ready, but he ignored their advise.

What has he achieved? Russia is rebuilding the Soviet Union having effectively annexed the Crimea, and destabilizing the Ukraine. Syria crossed his red line so many times the wore it out. Benghazi, Iran ... the list of failures seems endless.

Last but not least, if you are going to criticize congress, let's start with Harry and Nancy, not to mention the rest of the Senate that has failed to pass a budget in over 8 years in violation of the Constitution, not to mention the strong arm tactics they have used to prevent a single Republican bill to come to the floor, not to mention keep their own people in line. I'm done.

Talking points of the "over 60 white folks" which will get you no where in the 2016 election, furthermore with those kind of half true potshots it will be a landslide victory for Hillary if indeed she runs. I'll be back election day to remind you of that .

You cannot and will not win any elections with such weak arguments . The majority of this nation won't buy it.

I actually did not vote for mr. Clinton but now looking back his presidency was admired and respected - overall !
Today he is loved worldwide as "the world's President" and had tirelessly done great humanitarian work .

People remember a surplus and economic boom under president Clinton and yearn for those days again .

Sure "the do nothing congress" can fool the "over 60 white folks" but not much anyone else . This will be reflected as I say in the next elections and I'll remind you of it then.

The great majority of this nation is war weary and tired of being the policeman of the world and that sentiment will not change anytime soon.

Yes America is always there to help for humanitarian reasons but we have no appetite for deep involvement .

Keep promoting the " over 60 white man " attitude , it will surely mean a devasting landslide loss in 2016.

And if we aren't "policeman of the world", what will take it's place?  ISIS and the like.

So we have our first black President.  That's nice, but so what?  I couldn't care less what color he is.  He hasn't brought the nation together on race; he divides it whenever he can.  And his bud Eric Holder......I won't even go there.

And regarding his lack of leadership.... The French Foreign Minister even said that when people are dying you must come back from vacationing.

But maybe you're right.  Maybe the United States is changing from a place where we prided ourselves on equal opportunity to a place where we have equal outcome.  And what a shame that would be.

And one more thing.  In the time capsule it will say that Obama destroyed the worlds best health care system.

Prided ourselves on equal opportunity ??

I'd recommend you watch lee Daniels ' "The Butler" a real story of a man who served 7 administrations .
In the movie , it wasn't until the Reagan administration that the African Americans serving in the white house received the same pay as whites ! Till then they earned 40% less than whites .

Yes , it is a. Big deal although many claim it's not

And who listens to the French anyway ?
Poor example !

I'll bet anyone on this forum $500 that given what I've outlined the republican party will take a whipping in 2016 if Hillary runs .

You are dealing with a dinosaur party !

Anyone want to take on the bet ? I'll do it in writing and even get it notarized .

Really , see that's exactly the kind of attitude that will sink your ship. Personally I know 4 people who have been diagnosed with cancer and other serious diseases . Under obama care they have been able to get insurance whereby before due to pre existing conditions they would be dead ducks .

3 of them are hard line republicans and thank the stars they are allowed care..

See this is exactly the kind of attitude that Americans are disgusted with : bickering, not working together , etc.
Instead of taking Obama care and trying to improve it which the president has said he's welcome to , republicans instead have wasted their time trying to repeal it .

This is exactly the. Kind of losing attitude I'm referring to.

Put your money where your mouth is .

$500 for anyone willing to bet me .

What good will health care for all do if there are no doctors?

Life isn't fair, but there is equal opportunity.  Some just have to work harder to achieve it.

"Who listens to the French"?  That was my point, even the French thinks Obama is detached from the events going on in the world.

Kevind53 wrote:
I lay the mess we see now squarely at O's feet. He pulled out the troops before Iraq was ready for political expediency. The generals told him they were not ready, but he ignored their advise.

Back when everyone was happy the troops were coming home, all the republicans gave Bush the credit because it "was his time table". I saw it over and over and over again on forum posts and conservative media. Then people decide it was bad idea and Obama gets all the blame.

You can't have it both ways.

florida guy wrote:Really , see that's exactly the kind of attitude that will sink your ship. Personally I know 4 people who have been diagnosed with cancer and other serious diseases . Under obama care they have been able to get insurance whereby before due to pre existing conditions they would be dead ducks .

3 of them are hard line republicans and thank the stars they are allowed care..

See this is exactly the kind of attitude that Americans are disgusted with : bickering, not working together , etc.
Instead of taking Obama care and trying to improve it which the president has said he's welcome to , republicans instead have wasted their time trying to repeal it .

This is exactly the. Kind of losing attitude I'm referring to.

Put your money where your mouth is .

$500 for anyone willing to bet me .

 And as an Insurance agent I have talked to dozens who are unhappy because their rates went up, or had to change doctors/hospitals because theirs was not included in the network ... etc. I would put unhappy to happy at between 10 and 5 to 1 here.

FS4Enthusiast wrote:

Kevind53 wrote:
I lay the mess we see now squarely at O's feet. He pulled out the troops before Iraq was ready for political expediency. The generals told him they were not ready, but he ignored their advise.

Back when everyone was happy the troops were coming home, all the republicans gave Bush the credit because it "was his time table".  I saw it over and over and over again on forum posts and conservative media.  Then people decide it was bad idea and Obama gets all the blame.

You can't have it both ways.

No, not everyone ... not even close.

I work in health care and alongside Insurance agents at health fairs ALL THE TIME and for the most part their customers are pleased. Agents love the step up of activity they are seeing and almost unanimously see Obama care (like Medicare) a work in progress that can (and should) be tweaked and improved for all concerned. 

Of course when you clientele are mostly like you then I could see the "sour attitude" you are referring to.

Every state is different, the agents I talk to here are unhappy because the site is not working half the time, the people are unhappy because they are paying more for higher deductibles, in a neighboring state, people are having to drive past the local community hospitals and their local doctors because they were not included in the networks. As far as competition ... don't make me laugh. Our governor keeps crowing about the robust competition. Excuse me? The same two companies that are the only two companies allowed in state offering 12 plans is robust competition? Well better than the neighboring state with only one company I suppose.

I looked at becoming a navigator here, and after a close look, decided I did not want to deal with the mess and all the hoops you have to jump through. Hearing feedback from agents who did, I think I made the right choice. 

For the record, I am not a sour person. In fact people who know me will tell you that I have a very positive outlook. I just don't buy anyone's talking points. Like it or not, the Affordable Care Act is at best, bloated, ill considered and poorly written. The regulations promulgated by it only make things worse. My brother-in-law who is a doctor has told me that his practice has spent nearly a million dollars in trying to meet all the new regulations. I say trying, because he also tells me that there are more than a few contradictory rules, not to mention conflicts with state regs.

ACA was rushed to a vote for purely political reasons, and essentially railroaded through congress. It was never carefully considered, as that was not politically expedient. Just look at all the exceptions already made and implementation of parts delayed. At least Medicare was considered, read, amended  and debated. It works OK now .... actually the part that works best is Part D, where the government essentially said "here are the minimum standards," and then got out of the way and let the people delivering the services, who knew what they were doing, figure out how to implement it. It is the one area where we have seen consistent decrease of consumer costs. Competition, real competition (we have 31 plans available in my little state,) works ... imagine that!

Dylandreamer wrote:


The only REAL difference I see is that Obama can manage to not look like a complete idiot

         He looks like a total fool.

Florida Guy, I accidently deleted your post.... It was an accident.  Please repost... I am so sorry.         

Well, all I said regarding the last comment about O being a "FOOL" is that IF you watched his press conference yesterday he spoke very eloquently about both the Iraqi situation as well as the Ferguson, MI situation.  It was very professional.

And I'll also add this : It seems that the sanctions Obama has placed on Putin & Russia is indeed having impact because CNN reported yesterday that food prices are soaring 20-40 % and Putin is under pressure. Check out Putin's press release yesterday and you'll see quite a softening of his stance.

All I'm saying here is that it's so easy to criticize but "compromise" and allowing our commander in chief" a little leeway is most appreciated.
This is a DECENT human being who has achieved some good things after being dealt a pretty tough hand.

And whether you guys buy it or not : Unless you change your attitudes the white house is not within reach

As I've stated I've voted Republican many, many times before and right now it looks like a dinosaur party. Remember the word "INCLUSIVE" floating around dinarland about Iraq, well it holds in this country too.

I see no one has taken me up on my $500 wager either ??

Thank you for re-posting.  Again, I offer my apologies.

Totally agree with all you said, Florida Guy! 

 
Where did the money go that we where paying for the people that did not have insurance? The hospitals where not doing anything for free. My insurance premiums went up. I am now at a 60%/ 40% plan without a choice and $5500 out of pocket instead of $2500. I am just stating that some money was already in the system. The other thought, instead of $5000 earned income credit on tax returns for people that are not fortunate enough to earn more, take their insurance premiums out of the earned income credit. It is free money to those who qualify. So, actually would not cost them a penny.

Senator Tom Coburn , former doctor , certainly is trying to bring attention to many reforms much needed in health care reform .
Re pricing of products, services , medicine , etc. still needs serious overhaul for the system .
It's ridiculous for hospitals to be charging $10 for a single aspirin it Tylenol -- just one example.

This is certainly a work in progress which Obama also has spoke of .

I'd just love our leaders to really sink their teeth into health care reform and make it useful and practical and a model of envy for the whole world .

I sincerely hope these leaders can put aside politics, their egos and make our people healthy and proud .

I have spent many, many years in the health care industry, now on the insurance side of it, I also have a fair number of family and friends in all areas of the industry, researchers, Drs, nurses, administrators, you name it ... so I can draw upon decades of personal experience as well as that of people I know and trust.

If you really want to cut costs, the steps are simple. First and foremost, tort reform. Malpractice insurance costs are out of control, and add somewhere between 30 and 50% to the cost of healthcare, depending on how you calculate it out. I know personally Drs who pay nearly 1/3rd of their gross for malpractice insurance, and they have never had a major law suit against them. I have seen ridiculous suits settled out of court because it was cheaper to pay a couple hundred thousand than to take it to court. This adds cost to care, medicine, equipment, everything, not to mention the added costs of CYA tests and procedures performed daily.

Next, do something about the layers bureaucracy and regulations that have to be met. Regulations that many times are not only unnecessary, but arbitrary and contradictory. It might seem like a small thing, until you realize the huge administrative behind the scenes load they place on the providers. Take for example billing, it has become so complex that it requires at least 4 or 5 times as many people as it did just in the 90's to stay on top of it. Likewise risk management, medical records, just about any of the support functions that keep a hospital or practice alive.

Lastly we need to look at ways to allow more competition between insurance companies. In my state for instance there are two companies selling healthcare plans, and they call that "robust competition." Really, you can't make that stuff up folks. We need to enable consumers to purchase policies across state borders, or make it easier for health insurance companies to come into neighboring states.

Three fairly simple and obvious steps really. Will we see them? Not likely. Face it, our laws are written by lawyers, for lawyers, and the current state of affairs generates a ton of business for lawyers. It should happen, and it would work, but don't hold your breath.

Yep,law suits and insurance cost. I know they must be paying a fortune. I sat with my agent and figured they get about 1/5 of everything I earn.