LOP? Nope

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:31 am

Dinarians have no factual basis for their RV belief. Their RV belief is based on lies fables fantasies and fairy tales. They refuse to do any legitimate research that might disprove their RV belief and they spend enormous amounts of time looking for anything that supports their RV belief.

All the facts disprove their RV belief. Every single fact about Iraq dinar disproves their RV belief. And dinarians don't want to hear the facts of course. They reject any fact presented to them.

But this is how get-rich-brainwashed people are. RV scam or any other get-rich scam. They lose every dollar they "invest" in the scam and have to bear the shame of being so foolish and stubborn. If they brought other people into the scam they have to bear that shame too.

The Iraq dinar RV scam is destroying many family relationships and marriages.

"It destroyed my marriage but I'll never stop believing in the RV."

"He spent all our money on dinar then quit his job thinking the RV was any day now. We were broke. I couldn't take it any more and divorced him."

"3 years ago I convinced my brother and sister to buy dinar thinking the RV was any day now. Now they think I'm a fool and they won't speak to me any more. But I still believe dinar will RV."

Here's one fact that disproves the RV belief: 92 trillion dinar x $3 = $276 trillion. Way more than all the currencies on the planet. Forget it. Not gonna happen. But dinarians ignore this fact.

Here's the truth: 92 trillion dinar / $67 billion CBI reserves = $.00072. This is why IQD is dropping not rising, and there is no possible way IQD will RV at all. But dinarians ignore this fact.

Artificially low "program rate"? Just another lie made up "gurus" to keep the RV scam going. No currency can be given an artificially low exchange rate. It's impossible. Market forces control a currency's exchange rate. Just admit the truth. IQD is worth $.00072, not a bit more, and it's devaluing as CBI loses more of their reserves.

Redenominate? Yes, CBI will redenominate at some point. Redenominate means old currency is done away with and new currency is issued. Which means all the IQD currency dinarians have will be worthless. Completely worthless toilet paper.

LOP? No such thing as a LOP. LOP is just another lie made up by "gurus" to keep the RV scam going. Redenominate is what CBI will do as they have said many times.

Drop 3 zeros? That's redenominate. It's just their way of saying redenominate. CBI will issue a new IQX currency and the exchange rate from IQD to IQX will be 1,000 to 1. Drop 3 zeros. The rate will go from $.00086 on IQD to $.86 on the new IQX currency. Drop 3 zeros. When the exchange window closes all IQD anywhere in the world not exchanged for new IQX will be worthless. It won't be a recognized currency any more.

So all the IQD currency dinarians have will be worthless when CBI redenominates and goes to new IQX currency. But dinarians ignore this fact.

So why do "gurus" keep pushing the RV lie? Simple, they make money from it. It is estimated Tony Renfrow made $2 million per year from the RV scam in kickbacks from currency dealers and donations from his conference calls. Mr Renfrow was the biggest "guru" in the RV scam until he was sentenced to prison for a previous scam (14DailyPlus) and ordered to cease any involvement in currencies, no more conference calls, no more tweets, and shut down his TNTDinar website.

Vietnam Dong RV? With 3.5 quadrillion (3,500 trillion) Dong in circulation you can forget about any RV. It won't happen. VND is just another severely over-printed hyperinflated near-worthless currency that is devaluing just like IQD.

I estimate dinarians will lose $10 - $15 billion in the RV scam. It's the biggest currency scam in modern times.

I will not respond to any criticisms from dinarians. I'm not interested in your RV lies fantasies fables and fairy tales. And buy all the dinar and dong you want, I don't care, it's your money to lose. And go ahead, destroy your family relations, destroy your marriage, quit your job thinking the RV is any day now, go broke, go bankrupt, lose everything you have, whatever. It's your life to destroy.

by **Ponee** Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:36 am

GotOutSoldOut wrote:Redenominate? Yes, CBI will redenominate at some point. Redenominate means old currency is done away with and new currency is issued. Which means all the IQD currency dinarians have will be worthless. Completely worthless toilet paper.

That is what I am expecting to happen. I don't think we will see a penny from the notes held.

For those with Warka accounts, maybe, maybe not. More than likely not.

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:40 am

You will get no criticism from me!

I have been saying the same things, word for word for years now and I fully understand the frustration you have certainly run into trying to reason with these people. Don't give up! You do make a difference as it does get through to a few at least, I know this to be true because I have been told by some of them.

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:18 am

Ponee wrote:
GotOutSoldOut wrote:Redenominate? Yes, CBI will redenominate at some point. Redenominate means old currency is done away with and new currency is issued. Which means all the IQD currency dinarians have will be worthless. Completely worthless toilet paper.

That is what I am expecting to happen. I don't think we will see a penny from the notes held.

For those with Warka accounts, maybe, maybe not. More than likely not.

Only way you will see anything from IQD currency is take it over to Iraq and exch it 1,000 to 1 for new IQX which will be $.86. No money made.

After the exch window closes your IQD will no longer be recognized currency, it will be worthless.

This is how every redenominate works.

by **GypZ** Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:30 am

GLAD TO SEE YOU TELL THE TRUTH --THAT YOU SOLD OUT !!!AND FOR THAT REASON YOU STAND TO GAIN NOTHING...WHEN OR IF IT EVER HAPPENS....I WILL STAY WITH MY IRAQ DINAR UNTIL I SEE A CHANGE TODAY TOMARROW OR 5 YEARS FROM NOW..YOU HAVE EVERY REASON FOR YOUR NEGATIVE ATTITUDE .I HAVE NONE .TO EACH HIS OWN.!Leave the people who have actualy boughT this for what it currency speculation alone.The other people never should have been here to begin with, like i always said. IVE HAD MINE FOR 12 YEARS AND IM NOT LETTING THEM GO UNTIL I SEE A PROFIT.tHIS WAS NEVER MEANT FOR PEOPLE TO GET RICH IN A SILLY GAME FOR CHILDREN.THIS IS A INVESTMENT ..and not a scam .The iraq dinar is a currency period.THERE IS NO SCAM ABOUT THAT.! :rtgf:

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:32 am

SoldOutGotOut wrote:
Only way you will see anything from IQD currency is take it over to Iraq and exch it 1,000 to 1 for new IQX which will be $.86. No money made.

Which brings up another question that has been asked lately, will Iraq even allow these Dinars to re-enter the country? It is obvious at this point that Iraqi officials were complicit in this scam, at least to the point where they looked the other way and pretended to not notice all those Trillions of Dinar leaving the country as crisp new nu-circulated notes! How could they not have known? So why did they allow it? Well it brought in BILLIONS of Dollars! Now the big question is will they be willing to give those Dollars back or will they simply call all those Dinar notes "smuggled" and thus illegally exported and therefor void? It sure seems they have laid the groundwork for such a scenario and it is hard to believe they would just willingly give up all those Dollars if they don't have to?

by **GypZ** Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:34 am

NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING WE CAN ONLY WAIT TO SEE!

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:36 am

GypZ wrote:The iraq dinar is a currency period.THERE IS NO SCAM ABOUT THAT.!

For the thousandth time no one is saying the DINAR itself is a scam, it is not, the scam is that people have been misled into thinking they were going to get rich from this nearly worthless hyper-inflated currency, that's the scam and a scam it most assuredly is!

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:41 am

GypZ wrote:NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING WE CAN ONLY WAIT TO SEE!

Yes we DO know some things! That's just a typical guru tactic you have fallen for, "No One knows", but just because we don't know everything Iraq WILL do does not in any way mean we don't know ANYTHING and we DO know what they WON'T do, we know with certainty that they WILL NOT/CAN NOT significantly increase the value of 60+ TRILLION Dinars!

GypZ a few weeks ago you seemed to understand and even admitted this could never happen, why did you change your mind? Don't you remember the discussion about the money supply and currency value relationship? How about the comparison of Iraq's currency and Jordan's?

by **Ponee** Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:44 am

GotOutSoldOut wrote:Only way you will see anything from IQD currency is take it over to Iraq and exch it 1,000 to 1 for new IQX which will be $.86. No money made.

After the exch window closes your IQD will no longer be recognized currency, it will be worthless.

This is how every redenominate works.

My husband used to say he would go and exchange over there. But, there is no way in hell we would go there now. Too dangerous. No money is worth dying for, period.

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:44 am

dwm007 wrote:
SoldOutGotOut wrote:
Only way you will see anything from IQD currency is take it over to Iraq and exch it 1,000 to 1 for new IQX which will be $.86. No money made.

Which brings up another question that has been asked lately, will Iraq even allow these Dinars to re-enter the country? It is obvious at this point that Iraqi officials were complicit in this scam, at least to the point where they looked the other way and pretended to not notice all those Trillions of Dinar leaving the country as crisp new nu-circulated notes! How could they not have known? So why did they allow it? Well it brought in BILLIONS of Dollars! Now the big question is will they be willing to give those Dollars back or will they simply call all those Dinar notes "smuggled" and thus illegally exported and therefor void? It sure seems they have laid the groundwork for such a scenario and it is hard to believe they would just willingly give up all those Dollars if they don't have to?

CBI has no obligation to "give back those dollars", and likely had no involvement in currency dinar dealers took (smuggled?) out of the country to sell to dinarians here in America.

And they don't have to worry about any of that. They just redenominate, new IQX currency, 3 month IQD to IQX exch window, then IQD is declared null and void. Simple as that.

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:46 am

Ponee wrote:
SoldOutGotOut wrote:Only way you will see anything from IQD currency is take it over to Iraq and exch it 1,000 to 1 for new IQX which will be $.86. No money made.

After the exch window closes your IQD will no longer be recognized currency, it will be worthless.

This is how every redenominate works.

My husband used to say he would go and exchange over there. But, there is no way in hell we would go there now. Too dangerous. No money is worth dying for, period.

What's the point? You wouldn't make a dime from it.

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:55 am

GypZ wrote:GLAD TO SEE YOU TELL THE TRUTH --THAT YOU SOLD OUT !!!AND FOR THAT REASON YOU STAND TO GAIN NOTHING...WHEN OR IF IT EVER HAPPENS....I WILL STAY WITH MY IRAQ DINAR UNTIL I SEE A CHANGE TODAY TOMARROW OR 5 YEARS FROM NOW..YOU HAVE EVERY REASON FOR YOUR NEGATIVE ATTITUDE .I HAVE NONE .TO EACH HIS OWN.!Leave the people who have actualy boughT this for what it currency speculation alone.The other people never should have been here to begin with, like i always said. IVE HAD MINE FOR 12 YEARS AND IM NOT LETTING THEM GO UNTIL I SEE A PROFIT.tHIS WAS NEVER MEANT FOR PEOPLE TO GET RICH IN A SILLY GAME FOR CHILDREN.THIS IS A INVESTMENT ..and not a scam .The iraq dinar is a currency period.THERE IS NO SCAM ABOUT THAT.! :rtgf:

No problem, keep it, and buy more if you want.

And watch it all go worthless when CBI redenominates.

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:05 pm

SoldOutGotOut wrote:And they don't have to worry about any of that. They just redenominate, new IQX currency, 3 month IQD to IQX exch window, then IQD is declared null and void. Simple as that.

Yep, you don't need to sell me on that as I have been saying the exact same thing for years! The question I was bringing up, and of course about all anyone can do at this point is speculate on an answer, is will Iraq allow all those exported Dinars to re-enter to even be exchanged for the new Dinar?

The reason I see concern about this is that a lot of people want to think that the worst that could happen is that they exchange for the new Dinar and thus break even? Lots of things wrong with that scenario however but the biggest question of all is would it even be possible for foreigners to exchange for the new currency? If so Iraq would still, even without a net increase in value, have to return every Dollar they took in for the Dinar that was exported so will they do that? Personally I have serious doubts that they will but that is only my opinion.

by **Ponee** Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:06 pm

SoldOutGotOut wrote:
Ponee wrote:
SoldOutGotOut wrote:Only way you will see anything from IQD currency is take it over to Iraq and exch it 1,000 to 1 for new IQX which will be $.86. No money made.

After the exch window closes your IQD will no longer be recognized currency, it will be worthless.

This is how every redenominate works.

My husband used to say he would go and exchange over there. But, there is no way in hell we would go there now. Too dangerous. No money is worth dying for, period.

What's the point? You wouldn't make a dime from it.

Ooops, I forgot to clarify - that was when all that IN COUNTRY only RV crap was going around. That was a long time ago.... when dreams seemed real. Back to reality...

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:16 pm

Ponee wrote: That was a long time ago.... when dreams seemed real. Back to reality...

And that is one of the major problems even to this day, back early on before it got to the point of the gurus just being silly it was fairly easy for a slick talker to indeed make this seem very legitimate and a lot of those folks are still hooked! It actually made a lot of sense they way it was described back then unless a person took a lot of time to dig out the facts which were not all that easy to find at that point. I clearly remember the first I heard of this was from a Cousin that was enthusiastically sold on it and what he was saying (repeating what he had been told) actually sounded plausible but still I was not convinced due to the old "if it sounds to good to be true" warning so I started checking it out. It took a while back then but the facts did indeed emerge, fast forward to now however! The truth is everywhere! It takes only minutes to research this thing now and while I can fully understand how people were easily taken in back then it just makes no sense at all now!

by **Ssmith** Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:17 pm

Pretend for a minute that an RV was possible and it did happen. Then what? A one month period to exchange and that would be in Iraq only?

https://www.dinardaily.net/t46011-will-the-iraqi-dinar-revaluation-happen

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:20 pm

dwm007 wrote:
SoldOutGotOut wrote:And they don't have to worry about any of that. They just redenominate, new IQX currency, 3 month IQD to IQX exch window, then IQD is declared null and void. Simple as that.

Yep, you don't need to sell me on that as I have been saying the exact same thing for years! The question I was bringing up, and of course about all anyone can do at this point is speculate on an answer, is will Iraq allow all those exported Dinars to re-enter to even be exchanged for the new Dinar?

The reason I see concern about this is that a lot of people want to think that the worst that could happen is that they exchange for the new Dinar and thus break even? Lots of things wrong with that scenario however but the biggest question of all is would it even be possible for foreigners to exchange for the new currency? If so Iraq would still, even without a net increase in value, have to return every Dollar they took in for the Dinar that was exported so will they do that? Personally I have serious doubts that they will but that is only my opinion.

I sorta doubt they would allow individuals to bring IQD currency back into the country when they have laws saying taking it out of the country is illegal. So you might be right, they may not allow dinarians to bring IQD into the country to exchange it for IQX. It likely would be confiscated at the border or at airport customs. And they might end up in Iraq prison too.

by **Ponee** Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:23 pm

Your story is almost exactly like mine DWM ... I heard about it from a relative also and it all seemed to plausible at the time.Caught up in the excitement, and the urgency because it was happening in the NEXT 72 HOURS we jumped in full force. Unfortunately, with money that we shouldn't have. Our retirement money. It was an exciting couple of months ....It was fun to believe and dream.... Until, you really break down the numbers and take in the unrest of the country and everything else. Then, coming down from that hopium is a big crash and burn. I understand why people don't want to. It is difficult to let go of hopes of better days. Especially for those that also have good hearts and want to help others.

by **Ponee** Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:27 pm

People keep saying just sell your dinar if you don't think this is going to happen, but because of the scenarios you pointed out SOGO and DWM we put our dinar purchase in the WARKA BANK. I am not sure we can even get our money out now. For the longest time, there were no transfers going in or out. I will have to work on seeing if we can get our money out again. It is not an easy process.

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Ponee wrote:People keep saying just sell your dinar if you don't think this is going to happen, but because of the scenarios you pointed out SOGO and DWM we put our dinar purchase in the WARKA BANK. I am not sure we can even get our money out now. For the longest time, there were no transfers going in or out. I will have to work on seeing if we can get our money out again. It is not an easy process.

Seems to me your only hope of exch for IQX during the RD is having your IQD in an Iraq bank like Warka. Iraq bank accounts will be exchanged into IQX automatically at 1,000 to 1.

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:52 pm

Ponee wrote:Your story is almost exactly like mine DWM ... I heard about it from a relative also and it all seemed to plausible at the time.Caught up in the excitement, and the urgency because it was happening in the NEXT 72 HOURS we jumped in full force. Unfortunately, with money that we shouldn't have. Our retirement money. It was an exciting couple of months ....It was fun to believe and dream.... Until, you really break down the numbers and take in the unrest of the country and everything else. Then, coming down from that hopium is a big crash and burn. I understand why people don't want to. It is difficult to let go of hopes of better days. Especially for those that also have good hearts and want to help others.

Which is exactly why I go after scammers like I do, ALL scammers no matter what the scam! I have seen first hand the absolute devastation these scams can lead to, I saw that family member give away his inheritance, money his mother spent a lifetime saving, because of what one of these scum bags sold him on! I see that darling little girl I have mentioned before almost every day and I see the hardship she must endure because of the reckless actions of her parents and I know the hope she is innocently holding onto is only going to lead to even more disappointment due to the unrealistic promises of a brighter future that will likely never happen for her, it certainly won't happen because of Dinar! I get angry thinking of these things, mostly about the children who have so innocently put their faith in what their parents tell them and it just hurts me that there is so little I can do about it.

Right now at Christmas time would be a good time for those who still cling to this fantasy to think about what they are doing, think of the children that are always promised a better Christmas "next year"! These people may think they are not being a part of what's happening by hanging onto the lie but that's not the case at all, by continuing it makes them enablers and supports the ongoing misery being caused by these scammers!

By continuing to hang on I mean by continuing to support the idea this could somehow happen, holding onto the currency that has already been bought means little as long as the holder acknowledges the fact that it is and will remain worthless! I don't encourage people to sellout, what would be the point? it can't be sent back to Iraq so how would selling it change anything? It would only go to a new "investor" or to a dealer who would in turn re-sell it to just another victim so the only thing changed would be the owner's name! My suggestion to Dinar owners is to just keep the stuff and hope that maybe someday a small part of the "investment" might be recovered somehow and in the meantime they could be doing their part to bring this misery to an end, like some are indeed already doing.

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:26 pm

dwm007 wrote:I don't encourage people to sellout, what would be the point? it can't be sent back to Iraq so how would selling it change anything? It would only go to a new "investor" or to a dealer who would in turn re-sell it to just another victim so the only thing changed would be the owner's name! My suggestion to Dinar owners is to just keep the stuff and hope that maybe someday a small part of the "investment" might be recovered somehow and in the meantime they could be doing their part to bring this misery to an end, like some are indeed already doing.

Selling back means 20% loss (on top of 20% premium paid when purchased). Keeping it is guaranteed 100% loss when CBI RDs and IQD goes bye bye. Easy decision to me. I sold back.

And there is no way anyone will recover "a small part of the investment". IQD goes completely worthless when CBI RDs, just like Zim currency went completely worthless Sept 30 when it was demonetized by RBZ.

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:48 pm

SoldOutGotOut wrote:
Selling back means 20% loss (on top of 20% premium paid when purchased). Keeping it is guaranteed 100% loss when CBI RDs and IQD goes bye bye. Easy decision to me. I sold back.

And there is no way anyone will recover "a small part of the investment". IQD goes completely worthless when CBI RDs, just like Zim currency went completely worthless Sept 30 when it was demonetized by RBZ.

I agree 100% and I didn't mean to infer that holding on to it was a good idea.

Also I SERIOUSLY doubt that even a small part of it could ever be recovered, my point was if a person is going to hold on to it and hope for anything, unrealistic as it may be, then the hope of a chance that it might possibly be exchanged at the current rate minus multiple spreads and fees would be the most anyone could expect -even that is an extremely long shot and not likely! Still like most other currencies it may very well become exchangeable like other currencies (at a loss!) after this is all over, in fact some currency exchanges at airports, etc already do this in small amounts along with many other currencies. Banks however will no longer touch the stuff and likely won't in the future due it's association with the scam!

As far as selling, again it accomplishes nothing overall, the Dinar is still being held by a scam victim and selling only spreads the scam around, the sellers recovery only translates into a loss for someone else. I am not saying a person SHOULD or should not hold onto their notes only that I don't encourage people to sell, as the old saying goes another wrong don't make it a right!

by **Ssmith** Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:58 pm

Selling it back to a bank or airport currency exchange would lessen the chances of it ending up the hands of another "investor" and people could recoup a portion of the money.

by **Ponee** Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:01 pm

SOGO wrote:Seems to me your only hope of exch for IQX during the RD is having your IQD in an Iraq bank like Warka. Iraq bank accounts will be exchanged into IQX automatically at 1,000 to 1.

Only if we have access to it.

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:12 pm

dwm007 wrote:Also I SERIOUSLY doubt that even a small part of it could ever be recovered, my point was if a person is going to hold on to it and hope for anything, unrealistic as it may be, then the hope of a chance that it might possibly be exchanged at the current rate minus multiple spreads and fees would be the most anyone could expect -even that is an extremely long shot and not likely! Still like most other currencies it may very well become exchangeable like other currencies (at a loss!) after this is all over, in fact some currency exchanges at airports, etc already do this in small amounts along with many other currencies. Banks however will no longer touch the stuff and likely won't in the future due it's association with the scam!

Only hope anyone has is selling it before CBI RDs and it goes worthless. After the RD nobody will give anything for IQD because it won't be a recognized currency any more. The new IQX will be Iraq's currency.

dwm007 wrote:As far as selling, again it accomplishes nothing overall, the Dinar is still being held by a scam victim and selling only spreads the scam around, the sellers recovery only translates into a loss for someone else. I am not saying a person SHOULD or should not hold onto their notes only that I don't encourage people to sell, as the old saying goes another wrong don't make it a right!

I'm not responsible for someone else's loss. If the dealer sells my sold-back currency to someone else, it's not my problem. I lost 20% not 100%. All I care about.

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:29 pm

SoldOutGotOut wrote:

Only hope anyone has is selling it before CBI RDs and it goes worthless. After the RD nobody will give anything for IQD because it won't be a recognized currency any more. The new IQX will be Iraq's currency.

Darn Good point! I was failing to consider that airport exchanges, etc will certainly not be involved in exchanging the old for new during change over! I was only thinking that once the scam dies then exchange for travel purposes would resume just as with most other currencies, the re-denomination as you correctly point out makes that a moot point, they very well may take the new Dinar from a traveler coming into the country but that would be meaningless to someone holding the old ones!

dwm007 wrote:As far as selling, again it accomplishes nothing overall, the Dinar is still being held by a scam victim and selling only spreads the scam around, the sellers recovery only translates into a loss for someone else. I am not saying a person SHOULD or should not hold onto their notes only that I don't encourage people to sell, as the old saying goes another wrong don't make it a right!

I'm not responsible for someone else's loss. If the dealer sells my sold-back currency to someone else, it's not my problem. I lost 20% not 100%. All I care about.

Again I am not saying a person should or should not sell their Dinar nor should they feel guilty for doing so, I just said that I don't encourage anyone to sell since it's their property and their decision and the over-all effect is nil anyway. It's entirely up to the person who owns the notes, if they want to sell and another party wants to buy than nothing wrong at all with that. My only point was that in the overall scheme of things it does little or nothing to stop the scam itself and stopping the dealers and pumpers is my only concern, it's none of my business what a person does with their notes so while I discourage falling for the scam in the first place I will not tell a person one way or they other what they should or should not do with something they own.

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:58 pm

dwm007 wrote:Again I am not saying a person should or should not sell their Dinar nor should they feel guilty for doing so, I just said that I don't encourage anyone to sell since it's their property and their decision and the over-all effect is nil anyway. It's entirely up to the person who owns the notes, if they want to sell and another party wants to buy than nothing wrong at all with that. My only point was that in the overall scheme of things it does little or nothing to stop the scam itself and stopping the dealers and pumpers is my only concern, it's none of my business what a person does with their notes so while I discourage falling for the scam in the first place I will not tell a person one way or they other what they should or should not do with something they own.

I can't think of any way to stop the RV scam short of the government stopping it, and I don't see where they are stopping it.

by **dwm007** Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:55 pm

SoldOutGotOut wrote:
I can't think of any way to stop the RV scam short of the government stopping it, and I don't see where they are stopping it.

Unfortunately they are doing very little, bigger fish to fry I suppose! These cases would be hard to prosecute anyway, you can bet the major players are working under the advice of lawyers who keep them from straying into dangerous territory and with only a few exceptions, Hubner's bunch of crooks and Sterling for example, most operate within the law if not within moral and ethical boundaries. They have a scammer's dream come true with the dealer/guru teams and most would be all but impossible to successfully prosecute!

The internet has become a cesspool of lies, deceit and scams from conspiracy theories being used to to shape political and social changes to these silly scams such as the incredibly ridiculous GCR being used to sell investments in currencies, precious metals investments, nonsense energy technologies, etc, it goes a lot deeper than just this goofy Dinar scam. Unless the internet itself is brought under some sort of regulation I don't see how much of anything can be done.

HOWEVER, placing controls on the internet is a very dangerous concept and opens up a Pandora's box that probably should be left alone! Still something, I'm not sure what, needs to be done otherwise crooks, thieves and scammers are going to destroy what could be one of mankind's greatest media concepts! Self regulation is a noble concept and arguably is mandated by the first amendment but the dangers of allowing the dishonest to have a free reign definitely need to be dealt with in one form or another, what that should be is the big question. Freedom of speech is one of our greatest and most cherished freedoms but I think we can all agree that even that is limited to not being harmful to others, as the old saying goes freedom of speech does not give the right to yell fire in a crowded theater! Still the danger is where do we draw the line?????

by SoldOutGotOut Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:07 pm

dwm007 wrote:
SoldOutGotOut wrote:

Only hope anyone has is selling it before CBI RDs and it goes worthless. After the RD nobody will give anything for IQD because it won't be a recognized currency any more. The new IQX will be Iraq's currency.

Darn Good point! I was failing to consider that airport exchanges, etc will certainly not be involved in exchanging the old for new during change over! I was only thinking that once the scam dies then exchange for travel purposes would resume just as with most other currencies, the re-denomination as you correctly point out makes that a moot point, they very well may take the new Dinar from a traveler coming into the country but that would be meaningless to someone holding the old ones!

Only place IQD can be exchanged for new IQX is Iraq banks. Nobody in America nor any other country. Take it to Iraq and exch it is the only option anyone has.

by **Kevind53** Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:59 pm

What new IQX? You been talkin to pooroos again Willis? raspberry

by **dwm007** Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:47 am

I don't expect to see the redenomination and thus the new Dinar (IQX) for some time yet, quite possibly several years. The fact they are issuing ever larger notes is fairly solid evidence of this although they could change their minds any time they like. The only two real options they have with dealing with that enormous money supply is to either demonetize the old and issue the new more valuable currency with far less of it in existence or just issue new notes representing larger sums of the inflated less valuable currency and just live with the bloated money supply, obviously they have chosen to do the latter for the time being. Issuing the larger notes is cheaper, simpler and quicker to accomplish but it doesn't solve all the problems, while it helps alleviate the physical burden of having to carry large bundles of notes to transact common purchases it does not help eliminate the problems and possible confusion of having to calculate huge numbers.

They are likely to do this eventually but probably not until the war is ended (if it ever fully ends!) and the economy improves. They have argued about doing this since 2012 with some for it and some against so it's very possible they may continue to disagree and never do it, some other countries seem to do just fine with much larger money supplies and thus even larger notes than Iraq!

by SoldOutGotOut Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:22 pm

dwm007 wrote:I don't expect to see the redenomination and thus the new Dinar (IQX) for some time yet, quite possibly several years. The fact they are issuing ever larger notes is fairly solid evidence of this although they could change their minds any time they like. The only two real options they have with dealing with that enormous money supply is to either demonetize the old and issue the new more valuable currency with far less of it in existence or just issue new notes representing larger sums of the inflated less valuable currency and just live with the bloated money supply, obviously they have chosen to do the latter for the time being. Issuing the larger notes is cheaper, simpler and quicker to accomplish but it doesn't solve all the problems, while it helps alleviate the physical burden of having to carry large bundles of notes to transact common purchases it does not help eliminate the problems and possible confusion of having to calculate huge numbers.

They are likely to do this eventually but probably not until the war is ended (if it ever fully ends!) and the economy improves. They have argued about doing this since 2012 with some for it and some against so it's very possible they may continue to disagree and never do it, some other countries seem to do just fine with much larger money supplies and thus even larger notes than Iraq!

Yes they can keep going as they are with larger and larger note denominations to accomodate their hyperinflating worthless currency. Vietnam has 3,500 trillion dong in circulation and they're rocking along ok.

by **RamblerNash** Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:28 pm

dwm007 wrote:
SoldOutGotOut wrote:
Selling back means 20% loss (on top of 20% premium paid when purchased). Keeping it is guaranteed 100% loss when CBI RDs and IQD goes bye bye. Easy decision to me. I sold back.

And there is no way anyone will recover "a small part of the investment". IQD goes completely worthless when CBI RDs, just like Zim currency went completely worthless Sept 30 when it was demonetized by RBZ.

I agree 100% and I didn't mean to infer that holding on to it was a good idea.

Also I SERIOUSLY doubt that even a small part of it could ever be recovered, my point was if a person is going to hold on to it and hope for anything, unrealistic as it may be, then the hope of a chance that it might possibly be exchanged at the current rate minus multiple spreads and fees would be the most anyone could expect -even that is an extremely long shot and not likely! Still like most other currencies it may very well become exchangeable like other currencies (at a loss!) after this is all over, in fact some currency exchanges at airports, etc already do this in small amounts along with many other currencies. Banks however will no longer touch the stuff and likely won't in the future due it's association with the scam!

As far as selling, again it accomplishes nothing overall, the Dinar is still being held by a scam victim and selling only spreads the scam around, the sellers recovery only translates into a loss for someone else. I am not saying a person SHOULD or should not hold onto their notes only that I don't encourage people to sell, as the old saying goes another wrong don't make it a right!

Selling it back to the dealer is a better idea than holding on to it. At least you will get some of your money back instead of nothing when it re-denominates and has no value. Selling it back to a dealer wont create more victims as they will always have a supply to sell whether they buy them back or get some more from their "sources".

The Dinar Industry depends on sales. When the dealers buy back currencies, it takes away from their profits. When they have to much stock on their shelves, they need to reduce the inventory or go out of business. I don't think that their "sources" want them back or if they did, it would be at discounted prices. They don't want to give up their USD's.

If you hadn't noticed, there are fewer dealers now and they all have "red tape" to go through if your going to sell it back to them. You will eventually see the buy back price drop or go away completely as people start selling more and more back.

by **dwm007** Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:56 pm

RamblerNash wrote:Selling it back to the dealer is a better idea than holding on to it. At least you will get some of your money back instead of nothing when it re-denominates and has no value. Selling it back to a dealer wont create more victims as they will always have a supply to sell whether they buy them back or get some more from their "sources".

The Dinar Industry depends on sales. When the dealers buy back currencies, it takes away from their profits. When they have to much stock on their shelves, they need to reduce the inventory or go out of business. I don't think that their "sources" want them back or if they did, it would be at discounted prices. They don't want to give up their USD's.

If you hadn't noticed, there are fewer dealers now and they all have "red tape" to go through if your going to sell it back to them. You will eventually see the buy back price drop or go away completely as people start selling more and more back.

I don't disagree in the least!

Maybe a better explanation is needed of my position on the keep/sell issue. Back early on during a conversation on another forum I got scolded soundly about my position of telling people they should sell out while they can, it was not about what is going to happen but rather that person took offense that I was telling him/her what they should do with their property, they had a good point and I could not disagree. Basically I was told that I had every right to my opinion but I had no right to tell someone what decision they should make with something they own and he/she was right, I didn't! So from that time on I have taken the position that I don't encourage a person to do anything one way or the other unless my opinion on the matter has been asked for, I am solely dedicated to exposing the scam and scammers! What people do IF they become convinced this is indeed a scam is a very personal thing and never again will I intrude into their personal decisions. IMO both of you guys are right and I never disagreed I just prefer to leave such a personal matter as how to handle what amounts to a substantial amount of cash to the person it concerns.

by **dwm007** Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:08 pm

SoldOutGotOut wrote:
Yes they can keep going as they are with larger and larger note denominations to accomodate their hyperinflating worthless currency. Vietnam has 3,500 trillion dong in circulation and they're rocking along ok.

Yes Vietnam is the major player I had in mind when I said that but another, in some ways even better, example is South Korea. Although they are currently experiencing an economic slow down, not unusual as most economies will experience ups and downs, they have an overall robust economy that has experienced phenomenal growth basically going from a stone-age economy to a comparatively booming modern diversified manufacturing economy in a little over 50 years! The clincher here is that their exchange rate is nearly identical to Iraq's and they seem to be quite content with it, obviously they did just fine with such a rate!

by SoldOutGotOut Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:39 pm

dwm007 wrote:
SoldOutGotOut wrote:
Yes they can keep going as they are with larger and larger note denominations to accomodate their hyperinflating worthless currency. Vietnam has 3,500 trillion dong in circulation and they're rocking along ok.

Yes Vietnam is the major player I had in mind when I said that but another, in some ways even better, example is South Korea. Although they are currently experiencing an economic slow down, not unusual as most economies will experience ups and downs, they have an overall robust economy that has experienced phenomenal growth basically going from a stone-age economy to a comparatively booming modern diversified manufacturing economy in a little over 50 years! The clincher here is that their exchange rate is nearly identical to Iraq's and they seem to be quite content with it, obviously they did just fine with such a rate!

Only dinarians think currency value is important to a country's economy and IQD must RV for Iraq's economy to recover. It's pure nonsense. One of the big "guru" lies keeping the RV scam going.

Nobody outside dinarland believes it and Vietnam proves currency value doesn't matter. If currency value drops people just raise prices. Simple as that.

by **dwm007** Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:16 pm

SoldOutGotOut wrote:

Only dinarians think currency value is important to a country's economy and IQD must RV for Iraq's economy to recover. It's pure nonsense. One of the big "guru" lies keeping the RV scam going.

Nobody outside dinarland believes it and Vietnam proves currency value doesn't matter. If currency value drops people just raise prices. Simple as that.

Exactly, they can't seem to understand that currency is not stocks! Holding the currency notes of a country is not even remotely the same as owning stocks yet that's what these people have been led to believe.

by **GypZ** Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:04 am

DINARIANS ???? i am a currency speculater !!!!!!

by SoldOutGotOut Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:19 am

GypZ wrote:DINARIANS ???? i am a currency speculater !!!!!!

Dinarian.

Currency speculators don't buy physical currency. They do currency futures and options on Forex. And IQD isn't even on Forex in a tradeable way becuause it isn't a global currency, just an in-country currency, worthless outside Iraq and illegal to be taken outside Iraq.

Enjoy your 100% guaranteed loss on IQD which will happen when CBI redenominates and eliminates IQD altogether.

by **GypZ** Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:47 am

I see you as a sore LOOSER ...PERIOD .....AND THAT'S MY BOTTOM LINE! :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu:

by **dwm007** Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:48 am

GypZ wrote:DINARIANS ???? i am a currency speculater !!!!!!

Seriously GypZ, SOGO is correct in that what you have is not truly currency speculation as currency speculation is defined. Of course anything held onto in the hopes of gain could be considered "speculative" but that's not going to be of much help if you need to fall back on the very regulatory agencies you ignored and by-passed by holding onto physical currency. You have absolutely nothing in the way of official documentation that relates to true currency speculation, rather than having complied with established rules, regulations and procedures governing real currency speculation you have nothing more than the physical currency itself and no way to show that you even came by it legally (by Iraqi laws).

I suggest you revisit the conversation we had a few weeks ago and take another look at what had you thinking differently then, it's still just as valid.

by SoldOutGotOut Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:09 pm

GypZ wrote:I see you as a sore LOOSER ...PERIOD .....AND THAT'S MY BOTTOM LINE! :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu:

I lost 20% selling back. You will lose 100% holding onto it hoping it RVs which it won't.

You will be the sore loser when you watch CBI redenominate and declare your IQD notes null and void (demonetized) and they go completely worthless.

But whatever, buy all the IQD you want, I don't care, it's your loss not mine.

by **dwm007** Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:31 pm

GypZ wrote:I see you as a sore LOOSER ...PERIOD .....AND THAT'S MY BOTTOM LINE! :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu: :ojlu:

Remember this from a few weeks ago? At that point you seemed to understand that this could never happen and was even telling everyone so, remember we discussed why Jordan's currency was $1.41 and Iraq's was only 1166 to the Dollar. So what part of this did you decide was not true?

In this case the comparison was Iraq vs Jordan but the same principle holds true for any pegged currency.

"Look at Jordan's reserves and money supply! Jordan has a money supply of only a little over 10 BILLION Dollars M1 Compared to Iraq's nearly 68 TRILLION M1!!!!

Jordan's M1, http://www.tradingeconomics.com/jordan/money-supply-m1

Iraq's M1 http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/money-supply-m1

Money supply divided by reserves = unit value, in Iraq's case their money supply is slightly over 1000 times higher than their reserves, about 60+ BILLION to back nearly 68 TRILLION in M1 which works out to guess what??? About 1166 to one!

Now look at Jordan, they have a bit over ten BILLION to back and they have in their reserves just a tad under 14 BILLION Dollars to back that 10 Billion with, so that works out to around 1.40 and guess what Jordan's current Dinar is worth? $1.41!

http://www.currency.me.uk/rates/jod-jordanian-dinar

Down near the bottom of the page you will find the Jordanian Dinar is today worth $1.406 U.S. Dollars!

It's all about that money supply and their reserves! Jordan has more Dollars in their reserves than Dinars in circulation while Iraq has over 1000 times more Dinars than they have Dollars to back them with!

The bottom line is Jordan's Dinar is worth a $1.41 but that puts THEIR wealth at only a bit less than 14 BILLION Dollars which is very little compared to the world's wealth while making Iraq's Dinar only $1 would make THEIR wealth more than all the world's wealth combined!

Can't you see the problem there? Look at your own research and do some math, it's easy to see how Jordan can have a Dinar worth $1.41 while Iraq's must remain at a fraction of a cent, Iraq has THOUSANDS of times more Dinars in circulation to back than does Jordan"

by **GypZ** Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:04 pm

YOU WRITE TOO MUCH AND IM NOT GOING TO READ ALL THAT ? MAKE IT SHORT AND TO THE POINT FOR BETTER IMPACT!LONG DRAWN OUT ARTICLES BORE ME!

by **GypZ** Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:07 pm

PS ,, I DONT CARE IF I LOOSE WHY SHOULD YOU CARE ?????SOLDOUTGOTOUT??? ..YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE ILL LIVE MINE.....!!! DONT CRY TO ME ARGENTINA!!!!

by **dwm007** Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:15 pm

GypZ wrote:YOU WRITE TOO MUCH AND IM NOT GOING TO READ ALL THAT ? MAKE IT SHORT AND TO THE POINT FOR BETTER IMPACT!LONG DRAWN OUT ARTICLES BORE ME!

The "RV" will never happen"

Is that short enough? Doesn't make much sense like that does it?

That's why when I make a claim I try to back it it up, I will not Hit&Run, is there something wrong with doing that?

That was not all that much there and it was a reply to YOUR assertion the Jordan's Dinar was $1.41 so Iraq's could be also, that explains why it can't. You seem to agree with that assessment before so I posted it again and simply asked what part of it did you decide was not true after all?

by **dwm007** Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:27 pm

GypZ wrote:PS ,, I DONT CARE IF I LOOSE WHY SHOULD YOU CARE ?????SOLDOUTGOTOUT??? ..YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE ILL LIVE MINE.....!!! DONT CRY TO ME ARGENTINA!!!!

Reply deleted, I had overlooked that the post was for someone else

by SoldOutGotOut Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:47 pm

GypZ wrote:PS ,, I DONT CARE IF I LOOSE WHY SHOULD YOU CARE ?????SOLDOUTGOTOUT??? ..YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE ILL LIVE MINE.....!!! DONT CRY TO ME ARGENTINA!!!!

I don't care if you lose.

My post was written for people wanting the truth about IQD which you apparently do not want.

I have no sympathy for people who don't want to hear the truth.