Why??

by **dwm007** Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:49 pm

Just curious, no bashing and no snobbery intended, just an honest question?

Why do folks keep holding on? I mean seriously what's left to hold on to? There is absolutely nothing out there to support the "RV" happening but there is overwhelming proof that it's not just unlikely but is in fact impossible! How can I make such bold statements? Easy, since simple mathematics prove this is an impossible event even if a person is willing to ignore the economic impracticality of any significant "RV" and then there is just plain old fashioned common sense!

We hear it all the time, "I am in it till the end" but what is the end? What does it take to mean the end? Numerous state and federal agencies including the FBI are warning people they are being scammed, dealers and pumpers are being raided, some are being charged already and some are even in jail! This thing IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN and never was! The cop out of "that's just your opinion" simply is just that a cop out, an excuse, because it is not just "an opinion". It's based on simple economics and the indisputable mathematics governing how economics works!

I am only asking why, I am not telling anyone they should sell out, that accomplishes absolutely nothing and would only transfer the scam to someone else, no point in getting folks to do that. But think about it, WHY? What is "the end" everyone is waiting on?

by **Ponee** Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:52 pm

Thank you ! This is an excellent post. It is also the very questions I have been asking myself lately. I want to be done and move on. Life is too short.

by **Ssmith** Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:58 pm

I think there are three broad groups of people that have gotten involved in Dinar.

#1 Fairly normal people who were approached from someone who told them about an expected appreciation in the Iraqi Dinar. They took quick glance at Iraq.... the liberation from Saddam, Iraq is going to be a democracy, going to grow, etc. and they decided why not spend $1,000 or so....gambling money, no big deal. These are people who have some disposable income, didn't do any in depth study and after a few months or a year of waiting have, for the most part, sold their currency or just given up. Tony and the other gurus may have made inroads with a few of these people, but most of this group are too smart to be fooled by such obvious conmen. Also a few others put no stock in what the gurus say, but still believe and refuse to take a logical look at the numbers. Who can explain why? Can't face reality, give up a dream? But I think most will eventually wake up and realize it will never happen.

#2 The Tin Foil Hat people. This group has the NESARA crowd, GCR believers, etc. The people have never seen a conspiracy theory they could pass up. They're nuts.......beyond help.

#3 The Uneducated, Elderly, Poor & Gullible. This is the gurus favorite group. They are easily manipulated....the sheep listing and believing whatever their favorite guru (cult leader) tells them. Also many in this group have been sold this as a "Blessing from God" and when you put faith in the mixture it makes it even harder to reach them.

People in this group have no financial knowledge beyond balancing a checkbook. I even saw a lady in TNT chat talking about having to take a class just to learn how to do that! Some are in desperate financial situations and have scraped everything together to invest in Dinar because it was sold to them as a way out. And what a way out....because when it RV's they'll become millionaires. On and on it goes. Many are just hanging on - homes in foreclosure, etc. There's been stories of divorces, kids calling Adult Protective Services on their parents because they are living their live around Tony's calls, etc. Even the suicide attempt reported at TNT the other day.

I feel sorry for this group. They have gotten into something way over their head.....for whatever reason - education, elderly or just not that smart. A conman's dream. Tony has been working them over with is projects (Twitter campaign, sending letters to Congressmen, sending him letters of their Dinar story, etc) and telling them if they don't donate, he can't pay the "bills" and the calls will stop/forum will close. He needs to HANG!

by Kathyp Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:17 pm

Hopefully someone that's still holding on will comment. I pop in when I have some downtime and its the same people on Twitter saying the same thing they said six months ago! Now I'm seeing it will happen next month lol. It's almost laughable if it wasn't so sad. This has destroyed many peoples lives. Dinarland will believe and worship anyone that acts as if they are a guru! They don't have to make any sense just speaking confidently is enough to gain followers. It's sickening, I want to shake some sense into these people!

by **dwm007** Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:36 pm

ssmith wrote:I think there are three broad groups of people that have gotten involved in Dinar.

#1 Fairly normal people who were approached from someone who told them about an expected appreciation in the Iraqi Dinar. They took quick glance at Iraq.... the liberation from Saddam, Iraq is going to be a democracy, going to grow, etc. and they decided why not spend $1,000 or so....gambling money, no big deal. These are people who have some disposable income, didn't do any in depth study and after a few months or a year of waiting have, for the most part, sold their currency or just given up. Tony and the other gurus may have made inroads with a few of these people, but most of this group are too smart to be fooled by such obvious conmen. Also a few others put no stock in what the gurus say, but still believe and refuse to take a logical look at the numbers. Who can explain why? Can't fact reality, give up a dream? But I think most will eventually wake up and realize it will never happen.

#2 The Tin Foil Hat people. This group has the NESARA crowd, GCR believers, etc. The people have never seen a conspiracy theory they could pass up. They're nuts.......beyond help.

#3 The Uneducated, Elderly, Poor & Gullible. This is the gurus favorite group. They are easily manipulated....the sheep listing and believing whatever their favorite guru (cult leader) tells them. Also many in this group have been sold this as a "Blessing from God" and when you put faith in the mixture it makes it even harder to reach them.

People in this group have no financial knowledge beyond balancing a checkbook. I even saw a lady in TNT chat talking about having to take a class just to learn how to do that! Some are in desperate financial situations and have scraped everything together to invest in Dinar because it was sold to them as a way out. And what a way out....because when it RV's they'll become millionaires. On and on it goes. Many are just hanging on - homes in foreclosure, etc. There's been stories of divorces, kids calling Adult Protective Services on their parents because they are living their live around Tony's calls, etc. Even the suicide attempt reported at TNT the other day.

I feel sorry for this group. They have gotten into something way over their head.....for whatever reason - education, elderly or just not that smart. A conman's dream. Tony has been working them over with is projects (Twitter campaign, sending letters to Congressmen, sending him letters of their Dinar story, etc) and telling them if they don't donate, he can't pay the "bills" and the calls will stop/forum will close. He needs to HANG!

No 1, Absolutely! There were a lot of "normal" folks that got caught up in this thing because it was so easy in the beginning. When I first heard of it at a family reunion and was set upon by a cousin that was deeply involved I have to admit it at first did indeed sound plausible, he had a good sales pitch (obviously well coached, and by none other than Oki-oilman I later learned, Lol)! It had me interested enough to at least look into it but just a few minutes on the internet even back then was all I needed to see for sure what I already suspected! Anyone can, and should, do this but unfortunately for most their "research" doesn't go past the sites telling them they will get rich buying this worthless paper and so it becomes all to easy for them to fall for it.

No 2, There's no help for these people and also no hope for them so no point in even trying to figure them out.

No 3, THESE are the people that drives me to try and do my part to expose this scam, those folks and of course the innocent children that are suffering the trickle-down effects of their parents bad decisions.

by **dwm007** Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:47 pm

I inadvertently omitted one of the most incriminating pieces of evidence that should convince all but the totally unconvinciable and unrealistic die-hard supporters.

This is the fact that even Sterling which was one of the most prominent dealers freely admitted (VERIFIABLE by looking at the FBI documents on the case) that they KNEW FROM THE START THIS THING WAS A COMPLETE FARCE! In Emails to each other the owners stated clearly they KNEW the Dinar would never revalue by any significant amount and one of them plainly stated that he KNEW they were "running an illegal operation"!

What does it take to mean THE END?

by **Ssmith** Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:57 pm

dwm007 wrote:I inadvertently omitted one of the most incriminating pieces of evidence that should convince all but the totally unconvinciable and unrealistic die-hard supporters.

This is the fact that even Sterling which was one of the most prominent dealers freely admitted (VERIFIABLE by looking at the FBI documents on the case) that they KNEW FROM THE START THIS THING WAS A COMPLETE FARCE! In Emails to each other the owners stated clearly they KNEW the Dinar would never revalue by any significant amount and one of them plainly stated that he KNEW they were "running an illegal operation"!

What does it take to mean THE END?

And add to that the fact Sterling admitted paying TerryK (who has been the laughing stock of Dinarland for years). Also there is a audio, widely available on the internet, of TNT Tony slipping up on a call and admitting he works for Sterling.

Also look at Tony Renfrow's past..... The four years done the CA State Pen for tax fraud/evasion and also his recent guilty plea in the 14DailyPlus fiasco. This whole Dinar thing is full of liars, cheats, and scammers.

by **dwm007** Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:15 pm

ssmith wrote: This whole Dinar thing is full of liars, cheats, and scammers.

That in itself should be enough but still some folks just can't let go and that's the point of this thread, to find out why.

How about it, I know there are some reading this that are still hanging on so can you tell us why? I promise that any reply from me will be respectable and will not be an attempt to bash or belittle anyone's opinion and I would ask anyone else who replies to do the same. This is not about making fun of or belittling people but rather to bring out into the open people's thoughts and beliefs for discussion, of course the request for respectable discussion also goes for those who might still have a reason to hang on.

by **Kevind53** Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:21 pm

I would fit in the first group. while we are not rich, our house is paid for, as are our 3 year old and 15 year old cars. Working as an insurance agent and specializing in retirement, I have more than a passing financial knowledge, though I do not hold an adviser's license. We have a small nest egg, not huge, but enough if we live carefully. At the moment, we are holding onto a liquid position, as I am not confident at all of the market and I suspect we may see interest rates go up.

I spent "play money" on the dinar, I don't need the money, so I will ride this out. Worse case, I lose some money I didn't need anyway, best case, I eventually see a profit.

by **kenlej** Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:24 pm

Kathyp wrote:Hopefully someone that's still holding on will comment. I pop in when I have some downtime and its the same people on Twitter saying the same thing they said six months ago! Now I'm seeing it will happen next month lol. It's almost laughable if it wasn't so sad. This has destroyed many peoples lives. Dinarland will believe and worship anyone that acts as if they are a guru! They don't have to make any sense just speaking confidently is enough to gain followers. It's sickening, I want to shake some sense into these people!

I've made up a couple of profiles of TURDS forum IDIOTS and they have gravitated right to me by me just saying it's going to happen next weekend. I guess I'm doing a pretty good job bc I'm catching hell from my allies LMAO. I was able to help out Erich Mintzler when he PM me and asked me what sites to go to for info bc he wanted to invest in the VND lol. I gave him Iraq Currency Watch and he came back saying it was interesting but thought I was pro RV LMAO. I explained what I've been doing and he thanked me for showing him the truth and he was going to show his friends that had bought VND the articles I showed him so stopping that 1 person from a nightmare is well worth all the hours I put in trying to break this scam up. 2cents

by **kenlej** Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:43 pm

Kevind53 wrote:I would fit in the first group. while we are not rich, our house is paid for, as are our 3 year old and 15 year old cars. Working as an insurance agent and specializing in retirement, I have more than a passing financial knowledge, though I do not hold an adviser's license. We have a small nest egg, not huge, but enough if we live carefully. At the moment, we are holding onto a liquid position, as I am not confident at all of the market and I suspect we may see interest rates go up.

I spent "play money" on the dinar, I don't need the money, so I will ride this out. Worse case, I lose some money I didn't need anyway, best case, I eventually see a profit.

That's good that u only spent a little money but I see u have over 18,000 posts here so u must of spent countless hours posting here and believing the scam. Not saying u are 1 of them but for a lot of people it's not the money but the all consuming addiction of the "going to be a millionaire" that they use up their credit,stop working,and even shop for that million dollar house and $100,000 car bc it's going to happen anyday when all it is is a fairy tale or the land of oz or Alice in wonderland.

by **dwm007** Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:07 pm

Kevind53 wrote:I spent "play money" on the dinar, I don't need the money, so I will ride this out. Worse case, I lose some money I didn't need anyway, best case, I eventually see a profit.

This is a common line of reasoning and although I personally don't agree with it I do understand why some feel that way. However I might ask would you still feel the same about the money if it had been stolen by a pickpocket? I know that's an extreme question but honestly the money was stolen either way, by physical theft or theft by deception it was still stolen from you. You are an example of those who were innocently taken in and have no reason to be embarrassed for having been hoodwinked by a lie and I can fully understand how it happened as early on there were those that could make it sound awfully enticing.

by **Kevind53** Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:52 pm

Whether I have been hoodwinked or not is a moot point. It is over and done, and as the saying goes there is no sense crying over spilled milk. The fact is I was not pick pocketed. I cam into this with eyes wide open, I looked at the pooroo's claims, yes, but I did not JUST look at their claims, I also tried to do my due diligence in investigating their claims. In the end I did decide to purchase dinar, knowing full well that it was pretty much a roll of the dice.

Of course that was in the days before the pooroos started talking about Dong, Rupiah. GCR etc. Had it not been, I likely would have been less likely to take the chance. So, would I do it again knowing what I know now? I doubt it, but having done it, I'll ride it out until I win or crap out.

by **dwm007** Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:10 pm

Kevind53 wrote:Whether I have been hoodwinked or not is a moot point. It is over and done, and as the saying goes there is no sense crying over spilled milk. The fact is I was not pick pocketed. I cam into this with eyes wide open, I looked at the pooroo's claims, yes, but I did not JUST look at their claims, I also tried to do my due diligence in investigating their claims. In the end I did decide to purchase dinar, knowing full well that it was pretty much a roll of the dice.

Of course that was in the days before the pooroos started talking about Dong, Rupiah. GCR etc. Had it not been, I likely would have been less likely to take the chance. So, would I do it again knowing what I know now? I doubt it, but having done it, I'll ride it out until I win or crap out.

Again please don't misunderstand I am in no way trying to pick on you, rather I am talking about points in general since the case you describe is a good example of an extremely common situation. This is how a lot of folks feel and I do respect that, I understand what you are saying and I agree that it's "over and done" and that's why I said at the start I was not trying to talk anyone into selling out. As far as the reference to the pickpocket I used that because the people who (the gurus and others that were in the business, dealers etc) sold people Dinar did so while knowing that they were flat out lying to them. As pointed out the owners of Sterling admitted that they knew full well from the start that the entire thing was a scam yet still hired people to spread lies and lure unsuspecting people into buying into what they knew was a scam, that makes them thieves and little different than pickpockets!

This is just to make a point in general about the dealers selling under totally dishonest pretenses and I am not trying to argue with anyone.

by **kenlej** Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:21 am

I understand what you are saying and I agree that it's "over and done" and that's why I said at the start I was not trying to talk anyone into selling out. LMAO Nobody will buy back that toilet paper! All the dealers are running for the hills and there's about 5000 people trying to sell it on Ebay I hear the bills are a little rough but charmin is more expensive than the dinar LMAO

by **dwm007** Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:26 am

kenlej wrote: I understand what you are saying and I agree that it's "over and done" and that's why I said at the start I was not trying to talk anyone into selling out. LMAO Nobody will buy back that toilet paper! All the dealers are running for the hills and there's about 5000 people trying to sell it on Ebay I hear the bills are a little rough but charmin is more expensive than the dinar LMAO

I agree with those who say "it's over and done" meaning they have already spent their money and selling out only means someone else ends up that Dinar so there's no point in trying to talk anyone into selling out, it only transfers the scam from one person to another. My efforts are directed at those who are still buying or those who are tempted to buy into this scam and of course (and most importantly!!!!) those who hold Dinar and waste precious time in their lives and/or make bad decisions while waiting on riches that absolutely are never coming! At least not from Iraqi Dinar.

As far as Ebay, I hear you! It's encouraging to see those listings because it looks as if the sell out rush is starting and this nonsense may be coming to an end "soon" (as RVers would say, Lol!) OTOH I notice that while listings are up, WAY UP, people are still buying! That worthless paper is still selling for obscene prices! Not what it did even a year or so ago but still it often goes in the $900+ per million range, or at least it was about a week ago but maybe the panic is setting in now, I sure hope so!

by **RamblerNash** Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:01 am

kenlej wrote:
Kathyp wrote:Hopefully someone that's still holding on will comment. I pop in when I have some downtime and its the same people on Twitter saying the same thing they said six months ago! Now I'm seeing it will happen next month lol. It's almost laughable if it wasn't so sad. This has destroyed many peoples lives. Dinarland will believe and worship anyone that acts as if they are a guru! They don't have to make any sense just speaking confidently is enough to gain followers. It's sickening, I want to shake some sense into these people!
I've made up a couple of profiles of TURDS forum IDIOTS and they have gravitated right to me by me just saying it's going to happen next weekend. I guess I'm doing a pretty good job bc I'm catching hell from my allies LMAO. I was able to help out Erich Mintzler when he PM me and asked me what sites to go to for info bc he wanted to invest in the VND lol. I gave him Iraq Currency Watch and he came back saying it was interesting but thought I was pro RV LMAO. I explained what I've been doing and he thanked me for showing him the truth and he was going to show his friends that had bought VND the articles I showed him so stopping that 1 person from a nightmare is well worth all the hours I put in trying to break this scam up.

"I've made up a couple of profiles of TURDS forum IDIOTS..."

A couple? LMAO

"...so stopping that 1 person from a nightmare is well worth all the hours I put in trying to break this scam up."

My hats still of to you for your dedication and persistence!

Not to many people recognize that your just trying to provide them with information so that they can see this from a different prospective.

by **kenlej** Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:33 pm

Thanks Nash I just found an old acc of alreadybblesed and I never even tweeted once but I had 35 followers LMAO Thanks for Pams number Shes probably to busy on the forum to answer LMAO

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