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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam DinarDailyUpdates?bg=330099&fg=FFFFFF&anim=1

Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Horizon Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:58 am

Alabama Securities Commission Issues “Investor Alert” Addressing Bitcoin, Iraqi Dinar
Posted on: 2:24 am, March 12, 2014, by Michelle Starks
 
 
Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Dinar1
 
 
The ASC warns of risks to investors in Iraqi dinar with a new "investor alert."
The Alabama Securities Commission will release the following “investor alert” statewide on Wednesday, March 12th. In response to a WHNT News 19 investigation, the alert specifically addresses investment in Iraqi dinar. An advance copy of the alert continues below.
——————–
 
MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA(March 12, 2014) - As our state’s and the country’s economy slowly improves, Alabama citizens could still be at risk for losing their hard-earned money to high-risk investment products that guarantee or promote unrealistically high rates of return with little or no exposure to loss. The Alabama Securities Commission (ASC) receives numerous inquiries about exotic-sounding, high-yield investment “opportunities” that, in many cases, are revealed to be unregistered investments touted by unlicensed individuals who employ vague or unrealistic trading strategies. And, with the rapid evolution and marketing potential of social media and the internet, investors may be lured by the illusion that most such opportunities are legitimate. The ASC alerts Alabama investors about two current, high-profile, high-risk investment opportunities that have the potential to seriously compromise their personal financial assets if not investigated thoroughly and carefully.
 
BITCOIN issues
 
Virtual or digital currencies, such as Bitcoin, have recently become popular as an alternative to cash or traditional lines of credit. Bitcoin and numerous other “crypto-currencies,” may be traded on online exchanges for conventional currencies, including the U.S. dollar, or used to purchase goods and services, usually online. Unlike traditional currencies, virtual currencies’ value can fluctuate radically according to user demand. In some cases, investors who trade on virtual currency exchanges have experienced trouble redeeming the digital currency or in cashing-out. The potential for fraudsters to use crypto-currencies to perpetrate financial scams is enticing due to the currencies not being issued by a governmental authority or financial institution, and having less regulatory oversight than transactions in conventional currencies. “The increasing prevalence of Bitcoin and other digital currencies has provided a fertile environment for financial criminals to make money on the increasing popularity and acceptance of these products,” said ASC Director, Joseph Borg. “The value of Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies can be highly volatile and investors should be aware that investments that incorporate ambiguous money systems can lead to very real risks, including the potential to lose one’s money!”
 
Iraqi Dinar issues
 
The Iraqi dinar “investment opportunity” is a scam that has existed for more than a decade and has regained some of its former popularity. As with many foreign exchange currency trading frauds, the dinar investment opportunity is often pitched as a “can’t miss” method by which the interested investor can profit from a severely undervalued Iraqi currency that is “certain” to appreciate in value in just a short time. Fraudsters engaging in the dinar scam promise that extravagant profits can be realized if the investor buys the dinar at today’s values, typically 1,000 or more dinars to one U.S. dollar. The investor then exchanges the dinars for dollars at a later date, once the dinar exchange rate has improved.
 
ASC Director Borg cautions that foreign exchange currency trading is very risky for main street investors. “Often, promoters of foreign exchange currency trading schemes, such as those involving the Iraqi dinar, lure investors with the promise of “control” over a large amount of foreign currency with a relatively small initial outlay. Fraudsters often predict inevitable increases in the currencies’ value, which will supposedly lead to huge returns over a short time, with little or no downside risk.” According to Borg, investors should not be fooled by the promise of easy money. “As with any traded commodity, investing in foreign currencies can be extremely risky and generally unsuitable for all but the most seasoned investors who can afford the high risk.”
 
Commodity trading platforms are subject to federal and state regulations; potential investors may contact the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) at www.cftc.gov for more information; check registration status and disciplinary history of commodities at the National Futures Association (http://www.nfa.futures.org/) or call NFA at 800-676-4632; and contact the ASC at www.asc.alabama.gov or call 1-800-222-1253 to determine if an investment opportunity and the person making the office are properly registered.
 
What you can do
The Alabama Securities Commission encourages all Alabama citizens to learn and incorporate sound and proven investment techniques as a means to grow and safeguard their personal financial assets:
 
● Check and verify. Before you buy, always independently verify with state and federal regulators who you are dealing with and whether the seller of the investment opportunity and the product is properly registered.
● Exercise skepticism. Be aware that many individuals who offer strategies for getting rich quickly make their money on the sales of their books or seminars. Ask yourself why they’re sharing their secrets with you instead of keeping it to themselves.
● Beware of guarantees. Be suspect of anyone who promises or guarantees an investment will perform a predictable way or will generate consistent or unreasonable returns.
● Be suspect of complex strategies. Avoid any investment opportunity that touts complex or exotic-sounding techniques to achieve unusual success. Investors should be able to clearly discern what kind of opportunity is being offered; who is offering it; how does it make money; what is required to get your money out of the investment; and what are the risks.
 Avoid pushy salespeople and claims of urgency. No reputable financial professional should pressure you or insist that you “act now” when considering an investment opportunity. If it is such a good deal today, it will be a good deal tomorrow—after you have had a chance to check and verify.
 
Contact the ASC with inquiries concerning securities broker-dealers, agents, investment advisers, investment adviser representatives, financial planners, registration status of securities or debt management programs, to report suspected fraud or to obtain consumer information. The ASC provides free investor education and fraud prevention materials in print, on our website and through educational presentations upon request.
ALABAMA SECURITIES COMMISSION
 
Post Office Box 304700
 
Montgomery, Alabama 36130-4700
Telephone: [url=tel:(334) 242-2984](334) 242-2984[/url] or 1-800-222-1253 Fax: [url=tel:(334) 242-0240](334) 242-0240[/url]
Email: asc@asc.alabama.gov Website: www.asc.alabama.gov


Last edited by horizon on Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbUTUwRpDbhT-xIofJl3G31OXoGzOAJS3qKlCApR1lrvZghQYKngbnt9AnaQMakin' Plans...Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam 7_6_8
 
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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Horizon Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:01 am

 :head bang: I don't Believe They are Right!!!!!   

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbUTUwRpDbhT-xIofJl3G31OXoGzOAJS3qKlCApR1lrvZghQYKngbnt9AnaQMakin' Plans...Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam 7_6_8
 
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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Kevind53 Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:23 pm

They almost have to say that ... I would expect nothing less from any state securities commission.

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Horizon Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:28 pm

Yes, that was what I was thinking!  Maybe it will be like the other one that RV'd, say its no good one day and RV the next!!!! That would work!!!!! cashingIn 

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbUTUwRpDbhT-xIofJl3G31OXoGzOAJS3qKlCApR1lrvZghQYKngbnt9AnaQMakin' Plans...Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam 7_6_8
 
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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by pama Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:10 pm

the only thing that is a scam about the dinar is these so called guru's who have taken advantage of innocent people who have not done their due deli-gents. People were ripped off big time by selling the dinar for way more value than they are worth. They told a lie about banks here in this country not able to sale dinar because it was against the law. I know for a fact a few banks who did sale dinar. They may not be selling them now, but they have in the past. I know this for a fact because I have gone into banks and asked my self. My own bank has told me that when the time comes they will handle everything for me down to cashing my dinar in. We all do know this. Yes, one day the dinar will RV, and yes we will make a profit. No one knows what kind of profit we will make because no one knows what the revalue will be. Just putting in my two cents worth. If your going to call something a scam, make sure you are calling who the scammers are. All of you know who you are in this forum and news feed.

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Guest Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:33 pm

Listen to yourselves , in denial , you almost sound like recraps comments section .

The key is still 3 parts : ;

1) the enormous amount of dinars outside the country , estimated at 25-30 trillion , yes , trillions
2) whether or not there will be a LOP or not combined with a RD or RV
3) whether they will do a in house exchange only or not

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Post by Kevind53 Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:40 pm

I am most definitely not in denial, I am fully aware of the risks, as I was when I got in. The Dinar is not a scam, and actually if you read the statement fully, they never say that the dinar itself is a scam, but the pumping of it by the gurus.

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by bigdaddytim Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:55 pm

Y'all know this is not an "if" when this whole RV is going to fall apart..........

We just keep searching for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Saint Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:21 am

Sorry to say this Dinar investment is not a scam. You can always sell your Dinar back to the dealers , at a small loss but none the less they can be sold. MHO. I believe Ohio made the same claim just a week or so ago. I'm in for I knew what I was doing from the get go.  :yes:

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Horizon Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:36 am

Saintsgame....I agree, that's the way I looked at it when I bought it!  I can always sell it back!  If you can sell it back it's not a scam!  It's got to do something!
I have lost more money than I have invested in this before, so it's not a lot of investment for the return even if it's less than a dollar, so I'm not complaining!


  Except I would like to go to the bank and cash in, come on Now RV!!!!  cashingIn 

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by FS4Enthusiast Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:28 am

@Horizon wrote:Saintsgame....I agree, that's the way I looked at it when I bought it!  I can always sell it back!  If you can sell it back it's not a scam!  

This is faulty logic.  Say you and I run into each other at a bar one night.  I tell you that gold hit 2,000 today and is supposed to go up even more tomorrow.  I have an oz of gold on me but I need the money right away, I can't wait until tomorrow, so I offer to sell you my gold for 1600 bucks.  Then tomorrow you can take it to a dealer and get at least 1900 or 1950 for it.  I get the money right away which is what I need, and you get a nice profit for doing essentially nothing.

You wake up tomorrow and realize that I lied and gold is 1350 an ounce and you just lost 250 dollars for no reason.

By your logic I didn't scam you, because you can still sell the gold at a loss.

@Horizon wrote:
I have lost more money than I have invested in this before, so it's not a lot of investment for the return even if it's less than a dollar, so I'm not complaining!




It's not a lot of investment if the possibility of a massive return exists.  If no possibility of a massive return exists then it's basically flushing money down the toilet, isn't it?

@Horizon wrote:
It's got to do something!





Why?  For over 60 years the currency value of Vietnam has done nothing but go straight down the toilet.  Is that the kind of something you're looking for?  In that time period there have been four RDs (lops).  Since the currency was unified there has been one lop, and again, the new post lop currency has done nothing but go down the crapper relative to the USD. 

Take a look at it's value (click the 1953 button):
http://fxtop.com/en/currency-pair.php?C1=USD&C2=VND

That a currency you'd want to have bought and held for decades?   Even just since 1990 it has lost over 75% of its value.  And don't tell me it's because Iraq is rich and Vietnam is poor, their GDPs are within about 25% of each other.  And please don't say oil.  A dollar of GDP is a dollar of GDP, it doesn't really matter whether it's coming from oil or manufacturing or agriculture.  If anything I'd says things like manufacturing and agriculture would be superior simply because they're far more sustainable.


Last edited by FS4Enthusiast on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by FS4Enthusiast Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:34 am

@pama wrote: We all do know this. Yes, one day the dinar will RV, and yes we will make a profit.

Do you really think it's rational to think that any investment has a 100% probability of success?  I don't.  And when you're talking about the currency of a violent third world toilet and an "investment" that has so many scammers attached to it and so many economics professionals and institutions stating it's a scam, you're starting to delve into crazy territory, I would say.

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Kevind53 Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:48 am

You go to a currency exchange and buy a foreign currency for a trip, you will pay a certain amount over the market price. When you finish the trip and cash in the currency, you will receive a little less than the market price. Is that a scam? Heck no, that is doing business. If the dealer did not charge some sort of spread in order to generate a profit, they would not be in business very long.

The reality is there are no guarantees. Heck, even those shares of Microsoft, or Apple, or any other company you care to name, is not guaranteed to not lose you money, let alone make you money. The fact is, there will always be risk, there are over 20 kinds of possible risk in any investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either a fool or a liar. Part of the process in choosing an investment is determining your tolerance for risk, the types that are acceptable to you, and the degree to which you consider them acceptable.

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by FS4Enthusiast Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:00 am

@Kevind53 wrote:You go to a currency exchange and buy a foreign currency for a trip, you will pay a certain amount over the market price. When you finish the trip and cash in the currency, you will receive a little less than the market price. Is that a scam? Heck no, that is doing business. If the dealer did not charge some sort of spread in order to generate a profit, they would not be in business very long.


Of course it's not a scam.  But that isn't at all what is happening here.  If, instead of buying currency for a vacation, you bought it as an investment and they told you it had a chance of appreciating 10,000%, it would not only be a scam, it would be completely illegal.  That is precisely what is happening here (though the dealers themselves won't tell you about the chance of it appreciating 10,000% (if they're smart, which some aren't), they let other people do it for them).


The scam isn't merely selling currency, the scam is the possibility of massive returns on the currency.

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Kevind53 Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:09 am

As I said, you would be able to make a case that it was a scam IF you could tie the guru pumping to a specific dealer or dealers. THEN you would have a scam, however, currency speculation, and the dinar itself are not scams. The very choice of words used by the Alabama Securities Commission indicate that they agree with this position. They called it a high -risk, high profile, investment opportunity. Their words, not mine. Remember these guys are largely lawyer types and their statements were reviewed by lawyer types, every word is carefully considered.

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Post by Saint Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:37 am

I agree 100%. If they chose not to consult with lawyers they would no longer be in business. Excellent point Kevin. Thanks .

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Post by FS4Enthusiast Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:56 am

@Kevind53 wrote:As I said, you would be able to make a case that it was a scam IF you could tie the guru pumping to a specific dealer or dealers. THEN you would have a scam

First of all, that has happened, with the BH Group.

Second of all, that's only relevant to whether or not the individual dealers are themselves doing something illegal, it's irrelevant to whether or not the entire dinar RV notion is a scam, which it is.  There's literally zero reason there would be a massive appreciation of the dinar.  If there's zero chance of a large dinar RV, then it's a scam, whether or not any of the dealers are actually doing anything illegal.  That just makes it a complex scam where most of the dealers have been smart enough to insulate themselves from legal repercussions.  And why would the dealers bother telling the lies themselves?  There are plenty of loser scumbag gurus willing to do it for them for a few table scraps from Google ads or conference call fees or site memberships.

People are buying massive amounts of dinar based on total and complete lies.  That doesn't change whether it's the dealers doing the lying or just the gurus.  You wouldn't call it a scam when someone loses hundreds or thousands of dollars on an investment based on 100% lies?  I certainly would.

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Post by Kevind53 Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:12 pm

In the case of BH, the case is not about dinar per se, but rather about the selling of non existent securities products, (hedge funds), wire fraud, tax evasion, money laundering selling securities without a license.

As an insurance agent I deal with state regulatory authority on an almost daily basis. I guarantee you that the state Securities Commission would not use the words "investment opportunity" unless they considered the dinar itself to be a valid investment opportunity. They are very aware their investigations might eventually lead to some sort of dinar related enforcement action and are likely to need to defend those words in court. 

My point is the dinar itself is not a scam the hyping of the dollar may be. There is a difference between the object and the scam.

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Post by IQD4US Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:38 am

Technically they did NOT say the Dinar was a SCAM - they called it a "risky investment"
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Post by Ponee Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:42 am

Riskier for some, more than others, depending on how much one may over extend themselves to invest.

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Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam Empty Re: Alabama says the Iraqi Dinar RV is a Scam

Post by Ssmith Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:38 am

My friend bought from Tampa Dinar, who merged  or was taken over by Dinar, Inc., and can't get any response from them regarding selling it back.  I was checking our Dinar, Inc.'s website the other day and took a look at their blog.  They are absolutely pumping the Dinar as an investment. https://www.dinarinc.com/blog/ 
"If you are still skeptical about investing your hard earned money, consider the following more realistic point of view:
It’s very likely for the Iraq Dinar to stabilize at 1US dollars = 100 IQD in a few years, if and when that happens your investment in 1 bundle of 100pcs of the 25,000 Dinars for example would be worth $25,000 USD."


Another quote:  "
Experts are saying that the Iraqi dinar should be restored to its past value (which was $.30 pre-war, and also was over $3 U.S. pre-Gulf War, and now is stable at a low 1170 dinar per U.S. dollar) before the end of the year or soon thereafter, due to the already mentioned reasons, and one more important one, below."

How are they able to get away with this?  I thought anyone selling stocks, mutual funds, etc. absolutely could not promote the product without the disclaimer "past performance is no indication of future results".   Seems like anyone purchasing from them has a basis for a lawsuit. 

Any TV stations in Florida interested in doing an investigation into this outfit?
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Post by Ponee Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:41 am

I agree with you Ssmith !!! That is definately misleading and deserves investigation.  PURE PUMP

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Post by Kevind53 Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:53 am

-snip- wrote:

How are they able to get away with this?  I thought anyone selling stocks, mutual funds, etc. absolutely could not promote the product without the disclaimer "past performance is no indication of future results".   Seems like anyone purchasing from them has a basis for a lawsuit. 

Any TV stations in Florida interested in doing an investigation into this outfit?
Simple, it's a currency, not a security, and as such not subject to SEC rules. As an insurance agent, I could advise you take the proceeds from the sale of your dinar and use it to purchase say a fixed annuity. I absolutely can not give any advise on any sort of equity based product such as stocks, bonds, mutual funds etc. Different beast, different regulatory environment, different rules. In fact I just had to bring a financial adviser in to talk with a client who had a 401K he needed to roll over and wanted advise on what to do. He was absolutely sold on the concept of a fixed, equity indexed annuity when the FA walked in the door, but legally, I could not touch the funds since the 401K was in mutual funds.

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Post by Ssmith Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:27 am

Only have a minute, but I thought the currency sellers were under a similar law...  Otherwise, why the need for Tony and the rest of the gang?  Not much difference between Dinar, Inc. saying the the IQD will stabilize at a 1:1 ratio w/the USD and Okie landing his stupid plane this weekend.
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Post by Kevind53 Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Nope, they are not, currency exotic or otherwise is considered cash, not securities, and as such it is not regulated.

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Post by Producer1 Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:52 pm

It's also NOT an investment, no more than calling my currency exchange of cash money an investment when I go to the airport to fly to England, and exchange my dollars for British Pounds. Nope...NOT an investment.

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Post by Kevind53 Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:16 pm

Exactly ... it's currency, nothing more, nothing less. Good to hear from you Pro ...

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Post by Ssmith Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:52 am

I realize that it's a currency and nothing more, nothing less.  But in the case of Dinar, Inc. they are promoting it as an investment......something that will be worth more in the future.  So it's a grey area?  Legally speaking?
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Post by Kevind53 Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:10 am

Very grey I think ...

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Post by Producer1 Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:26 pm

Black and white to me, ssmith. You mean to say that EVERY traveller who goes on an international trip, and exchanges their money for currency of the country they're about to visit, is taking part in an investment?  I mean...I travel to many International countries as a part of my work, and I have never looked at it as anything other than a simple currency exchange.  And....the rates are constantly changing.  I don't believe that it's simply my perspective of the given transaction.  My guess is that firms such as Dinar, Inc. are using certain vernacular in order to substantiate the inflated nature of the transaction as well as the service they provide. I also travel to numerous 3rd world countries with what the currency exchanges call "exotic" currency. As an example, this past January I travelled to Myanmar, formerly the country of Burma. Their currency is for the most part worthless, but...they will ONLY trade it for crisp, unfolded U.S. bills.  And...their currency is not regarded by most currency exchanges at airports, etc. When I did have Dinar, as an exercise, I tried to exchange some bills at one of the more well outfitted currency exchanges, to no avail.  Investment?  Not even if you squint your eyes! Smile

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Post by Ssmith Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:51 pm

No Producer1, I'm not saying that travelers who purchase currency for a trip are taking part in an investment.

   My question: Is it legal for Dinar, Inc. to sell IQD as an investment?
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Post by dinarstar Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:39 pm

Everyone reading this who has IQD bought it as an investment, and those who sold it to us sold it as an investment...albeit through a clever play with words and clever use of legal jargon by their attorneys. At least once I have heard one of the brokers on a live conference call with one of the pooroo groups espousing the benefits of owning IQD... once again, very cleverly and carefully choosing the correct words and terminolgy in order to skirt any legal ramifications if they were accused of pumping their product... which IS illegal.

The very fact that they are an invited guest on a dinar pumper's conference call is, to me, PUMPING dinar!!

This should be enough evidence for the powers that be to vigorously investigate BOTH parties, and, if they have access to sites such as recaps, investigate all the stinky-mouthed pumpers who's "intel" is posted there, INCLUDING recaps for knowingly promoting, ( do we think they do that for free?? ) and yes, it IS promoting, the lies of these individuals for gain...no matter the waiver recaps has, they are as liable as all the above pumpers when this hits the fan, as anyone.

I truly hope the PTB ( hahaha!! ) diligently and aggressively investigate this whole compost heap, and that the truth is dragged out into the public eye once and for all... so we can wave to the pumpers in the chain gangs as we ride by!!

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Post by Kevind53 Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:54 pm

It is still a grey area, but IMO, because it does not meet the legal definition of a security, it does not fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC. I believe that it will be very difficult to make a case, unless they can tie a guru directly to a dealer. Even then they will need to prove deliberate action with the intent to defraud to make a case. With all the attention in the past few months, I would put money on the fact that at least some jurisdictions are looking very closely at this, but we will not hear anything until they are ready to bring charges. 

However, the dinar, and sale thereof is in and of itself NOT a scam. It is a simple currency exchange, nothing more, nothing less.

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Post by aksafeone Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:59 pm

Let me throw this out there as an inquisitive mind seeking answers.

A coin collector buys coins at the bank and takes them home.  He processes them by date and mint.  He takes certain coins and places them in organized "books" to complete his "collection."  The balance he rolls up in bank rolls and places them in his safe.  IS HE INVESTING OR COLLECTING?

This same person buys foreign currencies (he occasionally finds foreign coins during his coin collecting and saves them).  He chooses to buy larger amounts of certain currencies (.e.: dinar and dong) and saves them in his safe also.  DOES THAT MAKE HIM AN INVESTOR?

When this person decides to "cash in" his collection of foreign currencies does this process constitute a "trade" (currency exchange) or the completion of an investment?  Is it taxable?

WE found that there is no known regulation taxing the exchange of currencies.  AS Ponee's post stated.  To the best of our knowledge the "investors" in the Kuwaitee currency deals of a couple of years ago PAID NO INCOME TAX on their "exchange."  That being the case then that "exchange" would then set the precedent would it not? 

Taking that literally, the conclusion of this post would then be that basically we are not investors, in reality we are merely collectors.  When we decide to terminate our "collection" we would thereby being conducting a "currency exchange." 

I for one have been collecting monies for years and have terminated some of those "collections" on occasion (i.e. taken rolls of coins to the bank to exchange for paper money and taken foreign coins to the bank to exchange them for USD.  Many people (politicians included) have for years exchanges dollars for foreign currency to later reverse the process.  In effect, they were merely exchanging (both ways) currencies.  THEY have not been taxed.  Taxation would indicate an investment, ergo capitol gains.  Since they have been exchanging  currencies for years and never been taxed it would seem that unless there exists (which there does not) a regulation that has taxed currency exchanges we would be, by definition , collectors and not investors as collections do not produce capitol gains per say but they do produce a variance in value between the two currencies being exchanged.  Depending which side of the trade one is on would determine whether the trade was a positive or negative trade.  Hopefully we will have a positive experience when we "trade" our currency - when ever that time may be.
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Post by FS4Enthusiast Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:18 pm

@Kevind53 wrote:In the case of BH, the case is not about dinar per se

Read the indictment.  It talks directly about investors losing money from dinar sales/purchases, not just the hedge fund.


@Kevind53 wrote:
My point is the dinar itself is not a scam

Of course it isn't.  It's a currency.  The "Dinar RV" (or a float leading to massive profits) is the scam.

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Post by Kevind53 Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:32 pm

I have read the indictment, and the charges do not stem from the sale of dinar per se, but from the sale of nonexistent dinar based hedge funds.

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Post by FS4Enthusiast Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:27 pm

@Kevind53 wrote:I have read the indictment, and the charges do not stem from the sale of dinar per se, but from the sale of nonexistent dinar based hedge funds.

No, it's both.  If it were only about the hedge funds then numerous statements made in the indictment would make no sense, like "[BH Group] sold and offered to sell Iraqi currency...by making material false statements and representations..." and "investors lost approximately $23,788,485.71 from dinar sales..."

I don't even really understand why this is even worthy of discussion.  Were the BH Group lying about the dinar?  Yes.  Were they selling the dinar?  Yes.  Is this legal?  No.

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Post by Kevind53 Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:01 pm

The original indictment may have focused more on the currency, but those charges were dismissed in December and new charges filed. They seem to be more focused on false statements abut the dinar as an investment, wire and mail fraud, along with the hedge funds, xango, whatever the heck that is, along with money laundering and evading required reporting.

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Post by Ssmith Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:59 am

Does anyone have a link to the new BH  indictment?
 
I did do some reading on regulations of a "Money Transmitters 111" license (which Dinar, Inc.) has and couldn't find anything that says it is illegal to promote foreign currency as an investment. I was under the assumption that dealers couldn't promote the IQD as an investment and that was wrong.  But interesting discussion.  Thanks for everyone's input.
 
Guess it crosses the line when the promotion goes into outright lies, which is why there can't be any connection  between Tony & gang to the currency dealers.
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Post by Kevind53 Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:27 am


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Post by Ssmith Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:58 am

Thanks, Kevin
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