Latest topics
My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
+10
starship1
Kevind53
KAI
flee1
lexie
Bikertrash
mvgteam
therealbutterfly
Jayzze
rick152
14 posters
Page 1 of 1
My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:51 pm
I have been looking at 8938. I have found what seems to be the answer. I am not a tax person but am pretty good at reading legalize. Maybe there is a legalite to decern what I see here.
I know there has been a lot about this on the boards as of recent so here is what I found. I will break it down for all to see at least my opinion.
You must file Form 8938 if:
1. You are a specified individual.
A specified individual is:
A U.S. citizen
A resident alien of the United States for any part of the tax year (see Pub. 519 for more information)
A nonresident alien who makes an election to be treated as resident alien for purposes of filing a joint income tax return
A nonresident alien who is a bona fide resident of American Samoa or Puerto Rico (See Pub. 570 for definition of a bona fide resident)
AND
2. You have an interest in specified foreign financial assets required to be reported.
A specified foreign financial asset is:
Any financial account maintained by a foreign financial institution, except as indicated above
Other foreign financial assets held for investment that are not in an account maintained by a US or foreign financial institution, namely:
Stock or securities issued by someone other than a U.S. person
Any interest in a foreign entity, and
Any financial instrument or contract that has as an issuer or counterparty that is other than a U.S. person.
Refer to the Form 8938 instructions for more information on the definition of a specified foreign financial assets and when you have an interest in such an asset.
AND
This part is as to the CURRENT DOLLAR VALUE, Please notice I said current. r
3. The aggregate value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than the reporting thresholds
that applies to you:
Unmarried taxpayers living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at any time during the tax year
Married taxpayers filing a joint income tax return and living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $100,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $150,000 at any time during the tax year
Married taxpayers filing separate income tax returns and living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at any time during the tax year.
Taxpayers living abroad. You are a taxpayer living abroad if:
You are a U.S. citizen whose tax home is in a foreign country and you are either a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes the entire tax year, or
You are a US citizen or resident, who during a period of 12 consecutive months ending in the tax year is physically present in a foreign country or countries at least 330 days.
So what I get out of this is this...
If you are a U S citizen
AND
2. You have an interest in specified foreign financial assets required to be reported.
You hold a asset
Any financial instrument or contract that has as an issuer or counterparty that is other than a U.S. person.
This last part (above describes MONEY). See it? It says "financial instrument or contract" That peeps is MONEY.
Therefore I believe that dinar IN YOURT HAND must be reported. There are penalities for not. As long as you fit in the peramaters.
Now at current value how many of us actually have (as individuals) 50K or better IN CURRENT U S D VALUE? I venture to say not a lot on these boards.
With that, not a lot for us to really concern ourselves about (unless you are a high roller. I will (below) post links to the above and the instruction page for your viewing pleasure.
Love each other and yourself...rick152
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/article/0,,id=251217,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8938.pdf
I know there has been a lot about this on the boards as of recent so here is what I found. I will break it down for all to see at least my opinion.
You must file Form 8938 if:
1. You are a specified individual.
A specified individual is:
A U.S. citizen
A resident alien of the United States for any part of the tax year (see Pub. 519 for more information)
A nonresident alien who makes an election to be treated as resident alien for purposes of filing a joint income tax return
A nonresident alien who is a bona fide resident of American Samoa or Puerto Rico (See Pub. 570 for definition of a bona fide resident)
AND
2. You have an interest in specified foreign financial assets required to be reported.
A specified foreign financial asset is:
Any financial account maintained by a foreign financial institution, except as indicated above
Other foreign financial assets held for investment that are not in an account maintained by a US or foreign financial institution, namely:
Stock or securities issued by someone other than a U.S. person
Any interest in a foreign entity, and
Any financial instrument or contract that has as an issuer or counterparty that is other than a U.S. person.
Refer to the Form 8938 instructions for more information on the definition of a specified foreign financial assets and when you have an interest in such an asset.
AND
This part is as to the CURRENT DOLLAR VALUE, Please notice I said current. r
3. The aggregate value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than the reporting thresholds
that applies to you:
Unmarried taxpayers living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at any time during the tax year
Married taxpayers filing a joint income tax return and living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $100,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $150,000 at any time during the tax year
Married taxpayers filing separate income tax returns and living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at any time during the tax year.
Taxpayers living abroad. You are a taxpayer living abroad if:
You are a U.S. citizen whose tax home is in a foreign country and you are either a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes the entire tax year, or
You are a US citizen or resident, who during a period of 12 consecutive months ending in the tax year is physically present in a foreign country or countries at least 330 days.
So what I get out of this is this...
If you are a U S citizen
AND
2. You have an interest in specified foreign financial assets required to be reported.
You hold a asset
Any financial instrument or contract that has as an issuer or counterparty that is other than a U.S. person.
This last part (above describes MONEY). See it? It says "financial instrument or contract" That peeps is MONEY.
Therefore I believe that dinar IN YOURT HAND must be reported. There are penalities for not. As long as you fit in the peramaters.
Now at current value how many of us actually have (as individuals) 50K or better IN CURRENT U S D VALUE? I venture to say not a lot on these boards.
With that, not a lot for us to really concern ourselves about (unless you are a high roller. I will (below) post links to the above and the instruction page for your viewing pleasure.
Love each other and yourself...rick152
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/article/0,,id=251217,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8938.pdf
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:03 pm
I do must say with the above that since this has been updated as of Dec 15 2011 that it is possible the I R S is looking for something...rick152
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:56 pm
Bottom line is, if you opened a Warka Bank account or any other bank account in Iraq and deposited your dinar in that account, or if you have a bank account outside of this country, then you must file the 8938 form. This form or the law behind it does not apply the US persons inside the US holding the Iraq Currency, nor does it apply to the immediate tax due when the RV occures, nor does it apply 5 years later if you decide to wait that long to cash in as one of the other boards would have you believe. AJ
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:05 am
The Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act included a number of information reporting requirements intended to increase worldwide compliance with U.S. tax laws. One of those provisions is Section 6038D, which requires that Form 8938 be filed by every specified person who owns specified foreign financial assets (SFFA) with an aggregate value in excess of the applicable threshold amount. On Sept. 28, 2011, the Internal Revenue Service issued the much anticipated draft instructions for Form 8938, and they contain a number of taxpayer friendly provisions. Here’s a summary of key portions of the draft instructions.
Specified Person
A specified person includes (1) a U.S. citizen, (2) a resident alien, (3) a nonresident alien who elects to be treated as a resident alien for purposes of filing a joint income tax return, and 4) a nonresident alien who’s a bona fide resident of American Samoa or Puerto Rico. The draft instructions state that entities are likely to be classified as specified persons as well, but “Until such regulations or other guidance is issued, only individuals must file Form 8938.”
SFFA
An SFFA includes (1) any financial account maintained by a foreign financial institution, and (2) other foreign financial assets held for investment. SFFAs include stock or securities issued by someone other than a U.S. person, any interest in a foreign entity and any financial instrument or contract that has an issue or counterparty that’s other than a U.S. person. The definition of SFFA includes foreign mutual funds, foreign hedge funds, foreign private equity funds, interests in privately held foreign entities, swaps, options and derivatives.
Applicable Threshold Amount
Unmarried taxpayers and married taxpayers filing separately who live in the United States exceed the applicable threshold if the value of all SFFAs exceeds $50,000 at the end of the year or $100,000 at any time during the year. For married taxpayers who file jointly and live in the United States, those thresholds are $100,000 and $200,000. The thresholds are most generous for taxpayers living abroad: $200,000 at the end of the year or $400,000 at any time for persons who don’t file joint returns; $400,000 and $600,000 for joint filers.
The draft instructions contain fairly detailed guidance on how to value an SFFA. An asset can’t be assigned a negative value. All assets must be valued in dollars and there are specific rules on currency conversion. For financial assets, periodic statements can generally be relied upon. For other assets, the last day of the year is the date for valuation. When determining if the value of all SFFAs exceeds the threshold amount. jointly owned property is reported based on the value of the whole asset, except for married persons filing separately who will each include only one-half the value of the jointly owned SFFA. If Form 8938 is required, you must report the full value of jointly owned assets in all instances.
Estates, pension plans and deferred compensation plans are also valued at the end of the tax year. Such assets are often difficult to value and the draft instructions generally provide that if you don’t know the fair market value of your interest, you can report any cash and other property distributed to you during the tax year as the value. Similarly, non-grantor discretionary trusts are valued based on the value “of all of the cash or other property distributed during the tax year from the trust to you . . .” Mandatory trust distributions are valued using the Section 7520 tables.
Entity Versus Aggregate
If the value of SFFAs exceeds the applicable threshold amount, you must disclose all SFFAs, regardless of value. Only entity level reporting is required for financial accounts, partnerships, corporations, non-grantor trusts and estates. You must disclose underlying investments if you have an interest in a disregarded entity or are the grantor of a grantor trust. The draft instructions further state “an interest in a foreign trust or foreign estate is not a SFFA unless you know or should have known of the interest.”
Avoiding Duplicative Reporting
You don’t need to report an SFFA on Form 8938 if you’ve reported it on Form 3520, 5471, 8621, 8865 or 8891. You must, however, identify on Form 8938 which of those forms were filed that reported what would otherwise be a reportable SFFA.
Penalties
The civil penalties for failing to file Form 8938 aren’t nearly as extreme as for failing to file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Account. The penalty is $10,000 per year, which can increase to $50,000 per year if you still don’t file the form after the IRS mails a notice. A 40 percent accuracy-related penalty and a 75 percent fraud penalty can apply if there’s an underpayment of tax related to an undisclosed SFFA. Criminal penalties are also possible.
Statute of Limitations
The statute of limitations for assessing tax generally doesn’t begin to run if Form 8938 isn’t filed. Even if Form 8938 is filed (or if the Form isn’t required), if $5,000 of income related to an SFFA is omitted, the statute of limitations is extended to six years instead of three.
Specified Person
A specified person includes (1) a U.S. citizen, (2) a resident alien, (3) a nonresident alien who elects to be treated as a resident alien for purposes of filing a joint income tax return, and 4) a nonresident alien who’s a bona fide resident of American Samoa or Puerto Rico. The draft instructions state that entities are likely to be classified as specified persons as well, but “Until such regulations or other guidance is issued, only individuals must file Form 8938.”
SFFA
An SFFA includes (1) any financial account maintained by a foreign financial institution, and (2) other foreign financial assets held for investment. SFFAs include stock or securities issued by someone other than a U.S. person, any interest in a foreign entity and any financial instrument or contract that has an issue or counterparty that’s other than a U.S. person. The definition of SFFA includes foreign mutual funds, foreign hedge funds, foreign private equity funds, interests in privately held foreign entities, swaps, options and derivatives.
Applicable Threshold Amount
Unmarried taxpayers and married taxpayers filing separately who live in the United States exceed the applicable threshold if the value of all SFFAs exceeds $50,000 at the end of the year or $100,000 at any time during the year. For married taxpayers who file jointly and live in the United States, those thresholds are $100,000 and $200,000. The thresholds are most generous for taxpayers living abroad: $200,000 at the end of the year or $400,000 at any time for persons who don’t file joint returns; $400,000 and $600,000 for joint filers.
The draft instructions contain fairly detailed guidance on how to value an SFFA. An asset can’t be assigned a negative value. All assets must be valued in dollars and there are specific rules on currency conversion. For financial assets, periodic statements can generally be relied upon. For other assets, the last day of the year is the date for valuation. When determining if the value of all SFFAs exceeds the threshold amount. jointly owned property is reported based on the value of the whole asset, except for married persons filing separately who will each include only one-half the value of the jointly owned SFFA. If Form 8938 is required, you must report the full value of jointly owned assets in all instances.
Estates, pension plans and deferred compensation plans are also valued at the end of the tax year. Such assets are often difficult to value and the draft instructions generally provide that if you don’t know the fair market value of your interest, you can report any cash and other property distributed to you during the tax year as the value. Similarly, non-grantor discretionary trusts are valued based on the value “of all of the cash or other property distributed during the tax year from the trust to you . . .” Mandatory trust distributions are valued using the Section 7520 tables.
Entity Versus Aggregate
If the value of SFFAs exceeds the applicable threshold amount, you must disclose all SFFAs, regardless of value. Only entity level reporting is required for financial accounts, partnerships, corporations, non-grantor trusts and estates. You must disclose underlying investments if you have an interest in a disregarded entity or are the grantor of a grantor trust. The draft instructions further state “an interest in a foreign trust or foreign estate is not a SFFA unless you know or should have known of the interest.”
Avoiding Duplicative Reporting
You don’t need to report an SFFA on Form 8938 if you’ve reported it on Form 3520, 5471, 8621, 8865 or 8891. You must, however, identify on Form 8938 which of those forms were filed that reported what would otherwise be a reportable SFFA.
Penalties
The civil penalties for failing to file Form 8938 aren’t nearly as extreme as for failing to file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Account. The penalty is $10,000 per year, which can increase to $50,000 per year if you still don’t file the form after the IRS mails a notice. A 40 percent accuracy-related penalty and a 75 percent fraud penalty can apply if there’s an underpayment of tax related to an undisclosed SFFA. Criminal penalties are also possible.
Statute of Limitations
The statute of limitations for assessing tax generally doesn’t begin to run if Form 8938 isn’t filed. Even if Form 8938 is filed (or if the Form isn’t required), if $5,000 of income related to an SFFA is omitted, the statute of limitations is extended to six years instead of three.
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:09 am
New York Law Journel article to read:
http://www.maglaw.com/publications/data/00264/_res/id=sa_File1/070051118Morvillo.pdf
http://www.maglaw.com/publications/data/00264/_res/id=sa_File1/070051118Morvillo.pdf
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:14 am
Here is the law behind it!
26 USC §6038D. Information with respect to foreign financial assets
(a) In general
Any individual who, during any taxable year, holds any interest in a specified foreign financial asset shall attach to such person's return of tax imposed by subtitle A for such taxable year the information described in subsection (c) with respect to each such asset if the aggregate value of all such assets exceeds $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary may prescribe).
(b) Specified foreign financial assets
For purposes of this section, the term “specified foreign financial asset” means—
(1) any financial account (as defined in section 1471(d)(2)) maintained by a foreign financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(4)), and
(2) any of the following assets which are not held in an account maintained by a financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(5))—
(A) any stock or security issued by a person other than a United States person,
(B) any financial instrument or contract held for investment that has an issuer or counterparty which is other than a United States person, and
(C) any interest in a foreign entity (as defined in section 1473).
(c) Required information
The information described in this subsection with respect to any asset is:
(1) In the case of any account, the name and address of the financial institution in which such account is maintained and the number of such account.
(2) In the case of any stock or security, the name and address of the issuer and such information as is necessary to identify the class or issue of which such stock or security is a part.
(3) In the case of any other instrument, contract, or interest—
(A) such information as is necessary to identify such instrument, contract, or interest, and
(B) the names and addresses of all issuers and counterparties with respect to such instrument, contract, or interest.
(4) The maximum value of the asset during the taxable year.
(d) Penalty for failure to disclose
(1) In general
If any individual fails to furnish the information described in subsection (c) with respect to any taxable year at the time and in the manner described in subsection (a), such person shall pay a penalty of $10,000.
(2) Increase in penalty where failure continues after notification
If any failure described in paragraph (1) continues for more than 90 days after the day on which the Secretary mails notice of such failure to the individual, such individual shall pay a penalty (in addition to the penalties under paragraph (1)) of $10,000 for each 30-day period (or fraction thereof) during which such failure continues after the expiration of such 90-day period. The penalty imposed under this paragraph with respect to any failure shall not exceed $50,000.
(e) Presumption that value of specified foreign financial assets exceeds dollar threshold
If—
(1) the Secretary determines that an individual has an interest in one or more specified foreign financial assets, and
(2) such individual does not provide sufficient information to demonstrate the aggregate value of such assets,
then the aggregate value of such assets shall be treated as being in excess of $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary prescribes for purposes of subsection (a)) for purposes of assessing the penalties imposed under this section.
(f) Application to certain entities
To the extent provided by the Secretary in regulations or other guidance, the provisions of this section shall apply to any domestic entity which is formed or availed of for purposes of holding, directly or indirectly, specified foreign financial assets, in the same manner as if such entity were an individual.
(g) Reasonable cause exception
No penalty shall be imposed by this section on any failure which is shown to be due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect. The fact that a foreign jurisdiction would impose a civil or criminal penalty on the taxpayer (or any other person) for disclosing the required information is not reasonable cause.
(h) Regulations
The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance which provide appropriate exceptions from the application of this section in the case of—
(1) classes of assets identified by the Secretary, including any assets with respect to which the Secretary determines that disclosure under this section would be duplicative of other disclosures,
(2) nonresident aliens, and
(3) bona fide residents of any possession of the United States.
(Added Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(a), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 109.)
Effective Date
Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(c), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 110, provided that: “The amendments made by this section [enacting this section] shall apply to taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act [Mar. 18, 2010].”
26 USC §6038D. Information with respect to foreign financial assets
(a) In general
Any individual who, during any taxable year, holds any interest in a specified foreign financial asset shall attach to such person's return of tax imposed by subtitle A for such taxable year the information described in subsection (c) with respect to each such asset if the aggregate value of all such assets exceeds $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary may prescribe).
(b) Specified foreign financial assets
For purposes of this section, the term “specified foreign financial asset” means—
(1) any financial account (as defined in section 1471(d)(2)) maintained by a foreign financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(4)), and
(2) any of the following assets which are not held in an account maintained by a financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(5))—
(A) any stock or security issued by a person other than a United States person,
(B) any financial instrument or contract held for investment that has an issuer or counterparty which is other than a United States person, and
(C) any interest in a foreign entity (as defined in section 1473).
(c) Required information
The information described in this subsection with respect to any asset is:
(1) In the case of any account, the name and address of the financial institution in which such account is maintained and the number of such account.
(2) In the case of any stock or security, the name and address of the issuer and such information as is necessary to identify the class or issue of which such stock or security is a part.
(3) In the case of any other instrument, contract, or interest—
(A) such information as is necessary to identify such instrument, contract, or interest, and
(B) the names and addresses of all issuers and counterparties with respect to such instrument, contract, or interest.
(4) The maximum value of the asset during the taxable year.
(d) Penalty for failure to disclose
(1) In general
If any individual fails to furnish the information described in subsection (c) with respect to any taxable year at the time and in the manner described in subsection (a), such person shall pay a penalty of $10,000.
(2) Increase in penalty where failure continues after notification
If any failure described in paragraph (1) continues for more than 90 days after the day on which the Secretary mails notice of such failure to the individual, such individual shall pay a penalty (in addition to the penalties under paragraph (1)) of $10,000 for each 30-day period (or fraction thereof) during which such failure continues after the expiration of such 90-day period. The penalty imposed under this paragraph with respect to any failure shall not exceed $50,000.
(e) Presumption that value of specified foreign financial assets exceeds dollar threshold
If—
(1) the Secretary determines that an individual has an interest in one or more specified foreign financial assets, and
(2) such individual does not provide sufficient information to demonstrate the aggregate value of such assets,
then the aggregate value of such assets shall be treated as being in excess of $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary prescribes for purposes of subsection (a)) for purposes of assessing the penalties imposed under this section.
(f) Application to certain entities
To the extent provided by the Secretary in regulations or other guidance, the provisions of this section shall apply to any domestic entity which is formed or availed of for purposes of holding, directly or indirectly, specified foreign financial assets, in the same manner as if such entity were an individual.
(g) Reasonable cause exception
No penalty shall be imposed by this section on any failure which is shown to be due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect. The fact that a foreign jurisdiction would impose a civil or criminal penalty on the taxpayer (or any other person) for disclosing the required information is not reasonable cause.
(h) Regulations
The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance which provide appropriate exceptions from the application of this section in the case of—
(1) classes of assets identified by the Secretary, including any assets with respect to which the Secretary determines that disclosure under this section would be duplicative of other disclosures,
(2) nonresident aliens, and
(3) bona fide residents of any possession of the United States.
(Added Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(a), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 109.)
Effective Date
Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(c), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 110, provided that: “The amendments made by this section [enacting this section] shall apply to taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act [Mar. 18, 2010].”
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:13 am
Hey AJ thanks for the info you brought. Not to argue but to get this completely clear. I have brought this "example / definition of a financial asset to see what you think w/ link thanks...rick152
Financial Instruments Definitions and Examples Summary
Summarized IAS 32 definitions for those terms follow:
[1]. Financial asset. Any asset that is:
This specifically defines a asset in being inclusive of cash???
Financial Instruments Definitions and Examples Summary
Summarized IAS 32 definitions for those terms follow:
[1]. Financial asset. Any asset that is:
- Cash;
- An equity instrument of another entity;
- A
contractual right to receive cash or another financial asset from
another entity, or to exchange financial assets or financial liabilities
with another entity under conditions that are potentially favorable to
the entity; or - A contract that may or will be settled in the
entity’s own equity instrument and is not classified as an equity
instrument of the entity (discussed below).
- Cash, above
- Investment in shares or other equity instrument issued by other entities, see (b) above
- Receivables, see (c) above
- Loans to other entities, see above
- Investments in bonds and other debt instruments issued by other entities, see (c) above
- Derivative financial assets, see above
- Some derivatives on own equity, see above
This specifically defines a asset in being inclusive of cash???
Last edited by rick152 on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:15 am
Here is the rest of the definition for all...rick152
What is exactly financial instrument? Financial
instrument is any contract that gives rise to a financial asset of one
entity and a financial liability or equity instrument of another entity.
In this definition, “contract” refers to an agreement between two
parties that the parties have little, if any, discretion to avoid,
usually because the agreement is enforceable by law. An asset or
liability that is not contractual (e.g., an obligation to pay income
taxes) is not a financial instrument even though it may result in the
receipt or delivery of cash. The term “financial instrument” encompasses
equity instruments, financial assets, and financial liabilities. And, Equity instrument is any contract that evidences a residual interest in the assets of an entity after deducting all of its liabilities [IAS 32, Financial Instrument: Presentation]. These
three terms all have specific definitions that help entities determine
which items should be accounted for as financial instruments described
in detail through this post.
What is exactly financial instrument? Financial
instrument is any contract that gives rise to a financial asset of one
entity and a financial liability or equity instrument of another entity.
In this definition, “contract” refers to an agreement between two
parties that the parties have little, if any, discretion to avoid,
usually because the agreement is enforceable by law. An asset or
liability that is not contractual (e.g., an obligation to pay income
taxes) is not a financial instrument even though it may result in the
receipt or delivery of cash. The term “financial instrument” encompasses
equity instruments, financial assets, and financial liabilities. And, Equity instrument is any contract that evidences a residual interest in the assets of an entity after deducting all of its liabilities [IAS 32, Financial Instrument: Presentation]. These
three terms all have specific definitions that help entities determine
which items should be accounted for as financial instruments described
in detail through this post.
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:28 pm
Definition of a financial instrument...rick152
financial instrument
Definition
A document (such as a check, draft, bond, share, bill of exchange,
futures or options contract) that has a monetary value or represents a
legally enforceable (binding) agreement between two or more parties
regarding a right to payment of money. See also debt instrument, equity
instrument, and financing instrument.
financial instrument
Definition
A document (such as a check, draft, bond, share, bill of exchange,
futures or options contract) that has a monetary value or represents a
legally enforceable (binding) agreement between two or more parties
regarding a right to payment of money. See also debt instrument, equity
instrument, and financing instrument.
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:32 pm
This brought over by a friend on another site...rick152 We are all going to bring this up with our accountants if we fall in the catagories mentioned above as to Value
Quote
I just got off the phone with my accountant.
He pulled up the form, looked at the exclusions, instructions, read through the whole process for me.
Currency DEFINITELY falls into the category of a "financial instrument", and the counter party is the GOI.
If, on Dec 31st, the value of your IQD holdings meets the reporting thresholds listed in the instructions, you must report them on your 2011 tax filing.
Personally, I think this is great news. My accountant said this is a
change in process from what has been required before, and it seems that
our treasury wants to know who is holding what with regard to the IQD
Quote
I just got off the phone with my accountant.
He pulled up the form, looked at the exclusions, instructions, read through the whole process for me.
Currency DEFINITELY falls into the category of a "financial instrument", and the counter party is the GOI.
If, on Dec 31st, the value of your IQD holdings meets the reporting thresholds listed in the instructions, you must report them on your 2011 tax filing.
Personally, I think this is great news. My accountant said this is a
change in process from what has been required before, and it seems that
our treasury wants to know who is holding what with regard to the IQD
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Jayzze Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:17 pm
can you tell me whhat a million dinar is worth in usd so i can figure this out thanks
Jayzze- VIP Member
- Posts : 5986
Join date : 2011-06-23
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:24 pm
I disagree completely with respect to holdings within the US and that it only applies to holdings out side the US. Read the law, that is what counts and not some persons interpretation of the intructions or publications, becuse thise things are not the law. AJ
rick152 wrote:This brought over by a friend on another site...rick152 We are all going to bring this up with our accountants if we fall in the catagories mentioned above as to Value
Quote
I just got off the phone with my accountant.
He pulled up the form, looked at the exclusions, instructions, read through the whole process for me.
Currency DEFINITELY falls into the category of a "financial instrument", and the counter party is the GOI.
If, on Dec 31st, the value of your IQD holdings meets the reporting thresholds listed in the instructions, you must report them on your 2011 tax filing.
Personally, I think this is great news. My accountant said this is a
change in process from what has been required before, and it seems that
our treasury wants to know who is holding what with regard to the IQD
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:19 pm
26USC 6038D states as below
(3) any financial
interest or contract held for investment that has a non-U.S. issuer or
counterparty; and (4) any interest in a foreign entity. The broad language makes the Section 6038D filing requirement more applicable than the FBAR filing. Some taxpayers will be required to file both next year.
As far as an accountant "interrupting the tax code...Is that not what they get paid for???
I would think it to be irresponsible to acclaim to everyone that a Educated / professional has no idea and should not INTERRUPT the tax code. See the above ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST OR CONTRACT Not has been said about ONLY out of the country, however plenty has been said about having said instrument
I am not questioning your legal knowledge, just your blanket statement ...rick152
ALWAYS SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVISE ON THIS AND ALL MATTERS AS TO "INTERRUPTATION" OF THE TAX CODE
(3) any financial
interest or contract held for investment that has a non-U.S. issuer or
counterparty; and (4) any interest in a foreign entity. The broad language makes the Section 6038D filing requirement more applicable than the FBAR filing. Some taxpayers will be required to file both next year.
As far as an accountant "interrupting the tax code...Is that not what they get paid for???
I would think it to be irresponsible to acclaim to everyone that a Educated / professional has no idea and should not INTERRUPT the tax code. See the above ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST OR CONTRACT Not has been said about ONLY out of the country, however plenty has been said about having said instrument
I am not questioning your legal knowledge, just your blanket statement ...rick152
ALWAYS SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVISE ON THIS AND ALL MATTERS AS TO "INTERRUPTATION" OF THE TAX CODE
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by therealbutterfly Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:29 pm
Rick152, I think you mean INTERPRET, not interrupt.
therealbutterfly- Elite Member
- Posts : 2416
Join date : 2011-08-02
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:33 pm
Hey you got it In my exuberance I goofed..LOL...rick152
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by therealbutterfly Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:22 pm
Hey I dont mind. I kinda want to interrupt the tax guys at times lol 
*****************
therealbutterfly- Elite Member
- Posts : 2416
Join date : 2011-08-02
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:13 pm
Wow now that sounded a little provocative LOL...rick152
one of these days I will learn how to do widgets
one of these days I will learn how to do widgets
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by mvgteam Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:52 pm
This form will be filed with Sch D post RV. That is correct.
*****************
In His Service
mvgteam- Active Member
- Posts : 45
Join date : 2011-07-25
Age : 56
Location : South Central USA
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Bikertrash Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:59 pm
I have a question, AJAnderson. Are you a tax attorney, CPA, or IRS senior agent.
If not your info is nothing more that a personal opinion, and should be considered that by all here. Folks seek profession help on all tax and legal matters.
If not your info is nothing more that a personal opinion, and should be considered that by all here. Folks seek profession help on all tax and legal matters.
Bikertrash- Active Member
- Posts : 65
Join date : 2011-06-20
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:19 pm
mvgteam wrote:This form will be filed with Sch D post RV. That is correct.
Hey mgvteam, I am under the opinion that (along with at least 2 cpa's from another site) if you fit into the perameters (ex CURRENT value of 50k U S in I Q D as a single person) as of up to Dec 31 2011. that you must file the form to DECLARE the amount held, before RV if it does not occur, But ask your accountant and use the above referance to get them started ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
New IRS rules demand more info on foreign holdings
by lexie Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:16 pm
updated 12/19/2011 2:26:43 PM ET 2011-12-19T19:26:43
(article found by; ECOE)
New IRS rules demand more info on foreign holdings
Hundreds of thousands of U.S. taxpayers must reveal for the first time detailed information about foreign stock holdings, pensions and life insurance policies, under new U.S. Internal Revenue Service rules detailed on Monday.
..The new requirements may present legal risks for U.S. taxpayers living in countries with broad or vague privacy laws, said international tax experts.
Designed by Congress to snare tax dodgers with funds stashed abroad, the new rules are also likely to hit unsuspecting immigrants and first-generation Americans. Even tax preparers may be caught off guard.
"The days of the secret, offshore trust are over," said Richard Luthmann, a lawyer in New York who said he is working with clients from India and Canada on tax disclosure.
The rules are "really hitting a lot of unsophisticated persons with international ties," he said.
The IRS on Monday published nine pages of instructions for filling out a new form that taxpayers must file with 2011 tax returns due on April 15, 2012. The exact number of taxpayers affected is unclear, but is in the hundreds of thousands.
The new form applies to U.S. taxpayers living in the United States with at least $50,000 in assets abroad as of December 31, and to Americans living abroad with at least $200,000 in assets.
.Taxpayers who duck the new reporting requirement could face up to $50,000 in penalties.
U.S. taxpayers have always had to pay tax on foreign income. The new requirements are likely to expose income that in the past has been hidden from IRS view, intentionally or not.
'VIRGIN TERRITORY'
The IRS is "out in virgin territory" with these regulations, said Charles Bruce, an attorney with the Bonnard Lawson International Law Firm.
"The degree of complexity is extraordinary for a form aimed at individuals. Few people will be able to fill out this form without hiring a return preparer or making a lot of mistakes."
The new disclosure rules are part of 2010's Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA.
Under the new rules, taxpayers must disclose foreign stock and bond holdings; foreign pensions that start to pay out when the taxpayer reaches retirement age; and hedge fund and private equity accounts. Foreign assets held by a U.S. institution, like shares of a foreign company managed by a U.S. mutual fund, are not subject to the reporting requirements.
Foreign real estate is also exempt, though taxpayers owning foreign property through a company or a trust must disclose.
Individual reporting requirements will be followed in 2013 by requirements for financial institutions to release account holder information to the IRS. With the two data streams, IRS will be able to cross reference information, said Stanley Ruchelman, a tax-planning lawyer in New York.
The IRS "expects to receive the same information from two difference sources" to "ensure that each one is reporting correctly," he said.
HARSH RECEPTION
FATCA is getting a harsh reception abroad.
.Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, in a September letter to U.S. and Canadian media outlets, said the FATCA requirements "would turn Canadian banks into extensions of the IRS and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians."
Foreign banks may decide to drop U.S. customers rather than submit information to the IRS, experts said.
FATCA's individual reporting requirements may be problematic for some U.S. expatriates. Revealing too much information about business associates could break the law in some countries, but that does not mean the IRS will let expatriates off the hook.
"You've got to face this issue of, do I face the U.S. penalty or do I face a criminal sanction in the country where I live? That's pretty harsh," said Laurie Hatten-Boyd, a principal with the Big Four accounting firm KPMG LLP.
Such a scenario could arise, she said, with a swap where the counterparty is a foreign entity. The new IRS form demands disclosure of a swap counterparty's name and mailing address.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45726975
(article found by; ECOE)
New IRS rules demand more info on foreign holdings
Hundreds of thousands of U.S. taxpayers must reveal for the first time detailed information about foreign stock holdings, pensions and life insurance policies, under new U.S. Internal Revenue Service rules detailed on Monday.
..The new requirements may present legal risks for U.S. taxpayers living in countries with broad or vague privacy laws, said international tax experts.
Designed by Congress to snare tax dodgers with funds stashed abroad, the new rules are also likely to hit unsuspecting immigrants and first-generation Americans. Even tax preparers may be caught off guard.
"The days of the secret, offshore trust are over," said Richard Luthmann, a lawyer in New York who said he is working with clients from India and Canada on tax disclosure.
The rules are "really hitting a lot of unsophisticated persons with international ties," he said.
The IRS on Monday published nine pages of instructions for filling out a new form that taxpayers must file with 2011 tax returns due on April 15, 2012. The exact number of taxpayers affected is unclear, but is in the hundreds of thousands.
The new form applies to U.S. taxpayers living in the United States with at least $50,000 in assets abroad as of December 31, and to Americans living abroad with at least $200,000 in assets.
.Taxpayers who duck the new reporting requirement could face up to $50,000 in penalties.
U.S. taxpayers have always had to pay tax on foreign income. The new requirements are likely to expose income that in the past has been hidden from IRS view, intentionally or not.
'VIRGIN TERRITORY'
The IRS is "out in virgin territory" with these regulations, said Charles Bruce, an attorney with the Bonnard Lawson International Law Firm.
"The degree of complexity is extraordinary for a form aimed at individuals. Few people will be able to fill out this form without hiring a return preparer or making a lot of mistakes."
The new disclosure rules are part of 2010's Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA.
Under the new rules, taxpayers must disclose foreign stock and bond holdings; foreign pensions that start to pay out when the taxpayer reaches retirement age; and hedge fund and private equity accounts. Foreign assets held by a U.S. institution, like shares of a foreign company managed by a U.S. mutual fund, are not subject to the reporting requirements.
Foreign real estate is also exempt, though taxpayers owning foreign property through a company or a trust must disclose.
Individual reporting requirements will be followed in 2013 by requirements for financial institutions to release account holder information to the IRS. With the two data streams, IRS will be able to cross reference information, said Stanley Ruchelman, a tax-planning lawyer in New York.
The IRS "expects to receive the same information from two difference sources" to "ensure that each one is reporting correctly," he said.
HARSH RECEPTION
FATCA is getting a harsh reception abroad.
.Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, in a September letter to U.S. and Canadian media outlets, said the FATCA requirements "would turn Canadian banks into extensions of the IRS and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians."
Foreign banks may decide to drop U.S. customers rather than submit information to the IRS, experts said.
FATCA's individual reporting requirements may be problematic for some U.S. expatriates. Revealing too much information about business associates could break the law in some countries, but that does not mean the IRS will let expatriates off the hook.
"You've got to face this issue of, do I face the U.S. penalty or do I face a criminal sanction in the country where I live? That's pretty harsh," said Laurie Hatten-Boyd, a principal with the Big Four accounting firm KPMG LLP.
Such a scenario could arise, she said, with a swap where the counterparty is a foreign entity. The new IRS form demands disclosure of a swap counterparty's name and mailing address.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45726975
*****************
"WHEN THE POWER OF LOVE OVERCOMES THE LOVE OF POWER, THE WORLD WILL KNOW PEACE"
lexie- Elite Member
- Posts : 1812
Join date : 2011-06-24
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by flee1 Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:42 pm
please no more games it's time to make it HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
flee1- New Member
- Posts : 3
Join date : 2011-10-21
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by KAI Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:55 pm
HAVE YOU EVER KNOWN THE IRS TO "PLAY GAMES?"
Delays have been carefully played to allow government's to enact regulations that will provide income to their hurting economies.
Like the Bill on-hold by a wise House of Representatives.
So many pages (1285??), no time for analysis. The senate passed it. DOes your Senator have the ability to susinctly tell you what was just passed? (NOTE: The name of the Bill is not an answer).
This hold might just save our bacon.
Delays have been carefully played to allow government's to enact regulations that will provide income to their hurting economies.
Like the Bill on-hold by a wise House of Representatives.
So many pages (1285??), no time for analysis. The senate passed it. DOes your Senator have the ability to susinctly tell you what was just passed? (NOTE: The name of the Bill is not an answer).
This hold might just save our bacon.
KAI- Elite Member
- Posts : 324
Join date : 2011-07-28
Location : Earth - temporary assignment
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Kevind53 Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:59 pm
I am 90% sure I saw this in another section ... but do not have time to look ... maybe one of the other mods could merge? GTG adios
*****************
Trust but Verify --- R Reagan
"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you."1 Thessalonians 5:14–18
Kevind53- Super Moderator
- Posts : 27252
Join date : 2011-08-09
Age : 24
Location : Umm right here!
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:38 pm
Here is the law that governs Assets abroad. This does not have anything to do with holding dinar her is the US. AJ
26 U.S.A. §6038D. Information with respect to foreign financial assets
(a) In general
Any individual who, during any taxable year, holds any interest in a specified foreign financial asset shall attach to such person's return of tax imposed by subtitle A for such taxable year the information described in subsection (c) with respect to each such asset if the aggregate value of all such assets exceeds $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary may prescribe).
(b) Specified foreign financial assets
For purposes of this section, the term “specified foreign financial asset” means—
(1) any financial account (as defined in section 1471(d)(2)) maintained by a foreign financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(4)), and
(2) any of the following assets which are not held in an account maintained by a financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(5))—
(A) any stock or security issued by a person other than a United States person,
(B) any financial instrument or contract held for investment that has an issuer or counterparty which is other than a United States person, and
(C) any interest in a foreign entity (as defined in section 1473).
(c) Required information
The information described in this subsection with respect to any asset is:
(1) In the case of any account, the name and address of the financial institution in which such account is maintained and the number of such account.
(2) In the case of any stock or security, the name and address of the issuer and such information as is necessary to identify the class or issue of which such stock or security is a part.
(3) In the case of any other instrument, contract, or interest—
(A) such information as is necessary to identify such instrument, contract, or interest, and
(B) the names and addresses of all issuers and counterparties with respect to such instrument, contract, or interest.
(4) The maximum value of the asset during the taxable year.
(d) Penalty for failure to disclose
(1) In general
If any individual fails to furnish the information described in subsection (c) with respect to any taxable year at the time and in the manner described in subsection (a), such person shall pay a penalty of $10,000.
(2) Increase in penalty where failure continues after notification
If any failure described in paragraph (1) continues for more than 90 days after the day on which the Secretary mails notice of such failure to the individual, such individual shall pay a penalty (in addition to the penalties under paragraph (1)) of $10,000 for each 30-day period (or fraction thereof) during which such failure continues after the expiration of such 90-day period. The penalty imposed under this paragraph with respect to any failure shall not exceed $50,000.
(e) Presumption that value of specified foreign financial assets exceeds dollar threshold
If—
(1) the Secretary determines that an individual has an interest in one or more specified foreign financial assets, and
(2) such individual does not provide sufficient information to demonstrate the aggregate value of such assets,
then the aggregate value of such assets shall be treated as being in excess of $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary prescribes for purposes of subsection (a)) for purposes of assessing the penalties imposed under this section.
(f) Application to certain entities
To the extent provided by the Secretary in regulations or other guidance, the provisions of this section shall apply to any domestic entity which is formed or availed of for purposes of holding, directly or indirectly, specified foreign financial assets, in the same manner as if such entity were an individual.
(g) Reasonable cause exception
No penalty shall be imposed by this section on any failure which is shown to be due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect. The fact that a foreign jurisdiction would impose a civil or criminal penalty on the taxpayer (or any other person) for disclosing the required information is not reasonable cause.
(h) Regulations
The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance which provide appropriate exceptions from the application of this section in the case of—
(1) classes of assets identified by the Secretary, including any assets with respect to which the Secretary determines that disclosure under this section would be duplicative of other disclosures,
(2) nonresident aliens, and
(3) bona fide residents of any possession of the United States.
(Added Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(a), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 109.)
Effective Date
Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(c), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 110, provided that: “The amendments made by this section [enacting this section] shall apply to taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act [Mar. 18, 2010].”
26 U.S.A. §6038D. Information with respect to foreign financial assets
(a) In general
Any individual who, during any taxable year, holds any interest in a specified foreign financial asset shall attach to such person's return of tax imposed by subtitle A for such taxable year the information described in subsection (c) with respect to each such asset if the aggregate value of all such assets exceeds $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary may prescribe).
(b) Specified foreign financial assets
For purposes of this section, the term “specified foreign financial asset” means—
(1) any financial account (as defined in section 1471(d)(2)) maintained by a foreign financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(4)), and
(2) any of the following assets which are not held in an account maintained by a financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(5))—
(A) any stock or security issued by a person other than a United States person,
(B) any financial instrument or contract held for investment that has an issuer or counterparty which is other than a United States person, and
(C) any interest in a foreign entity (as defined in section 1473).
(c) Required information
The information described in this subsection with respect to any asset is:
(1) In the case of any account, the name and address of the financial institution in which such account is maintained and the number of such account.
(2) In the case of any stock or security, the name and address of the issuer and such information as is necessary to identify the class or issue of which such stock or security is a part.
(3) In the case of any other instrument, contract, or interest—
(A) such information as is necessary to identify such instrument, contract, or interest, and
(B) the names and addresses of all issuers and counterparties with respect to such instrument, contract, or interest.
(4) The maximum value of the asset during the taxable year.
(d) Penalty for failure to disclose
(1) In general
If any individual fails to furnish the information described in subsection (c) with respect to any taxable year at the time and in the manner described in subsection (a), such person shall pay a penalty of $10,000.
(2) Increase in penalty where failure continues after notification
If any failure described in paragraph (1) continues for more than 90 days after the day on which the Secretary mails notice of such failure to the individual, such individual shall pay a penalty (in addition to the penalties under paragraph (1)) of $10,000 for each 30-day period (or fraction thereof) during which such failure continues after the expiration of such 90-day period. The penalty imposed under this paragraph with respect to any failure shall not exceed $50,000.
(e) Presumption that value of specified foreign financial assets exceeds dollar threshold
If—
(1) the Secretary determines that an individual has an interest in one or more specified foreign financial assets, and
(2) such individual does not provide sufficient information to demonstrate the aggregate value of such assets,
then the aggregate value of such assets shall be treated as being in excess of $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary prescribes for purposes of subsection (a)) for purposes of assessing the penalties imposed under this section.
(f) Application to certain entities
To the extent provided by the Secretary in regulations or other guidance, the provisions of this section shall apply to any domestic entity which is formed or availed of for purposes of holding, directly or indirectly, specified foreign financial assets, in the same manner as if such entity were an individual.
(g) Reasonable cause exception
No penalty shall be imposed by this section on any failure which is shown to be due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect. The fact that a foreign jurisdiction would impose a civil or criminal penalty on the taxpayer (or any other person) for disclosing the required information is not reasonable cause.
(h) Regulations
The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance which provide appropriate exceptions from the application of this section in the case of—
(1) classes of assets identified by the Secretary, including any assets with respect to which the Secretary determines that disclosure under this section would be duplicative of other disclosures,
(2) nonresident aliens, and
(3) bona fide residents of any possession of the United States.
(Added Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(a), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 109.)
Effective Date
Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(c), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 110, provided that: “The amendments made by this section [enacting this section] shall apply to taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act [Mar. 18, 2010].”
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:47 pm
Kevind53 wrote:I am 90% sure I saw this in another section ... but do not have time to look ... maybe one of the other mods could merge? GTG adios
The wording on this thread is strickly addressing foreign ACCOUNTS. The other was different.I am not sure this is a complete synopsis of the NEWS that this has to offer???? I really believe the thread is incomplete and should it be here in a partial manner???? It could do damage and cause a lot of upset for nothing??..rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
New Tax Form not for IQD
by starship1 Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:57 pm
All this panic about the "new tax form" 8938 demanding that people declare how much IQD they hold is a tempest in a tea-pot. This has to do with foreign investments and holdings (such as off shore accounts, etc., etc.) that one might have in a foreign country. An MSNBC Article shed some pretty clear light on it and in my humble opinion, TonyTNT jumped to conclusions and made claims that are not correct. It is the Gov't attempt to crack down on off shore tax shelters so they are imposing stiff penalties for people that do not declare their off shore investments, accounts, and involvement. It had nothing to do with the IQD so relax. You will only have to declare your IQD when it RV's and you realize obscene capital gains. So, don't take my word for it. The IRS From is 8938 and there is nothing about the IQD on that form and the link to the MSNBC Article is: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45726975.
Last edited by starship1 on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
starship1- Active Member
- Posts : 58
Join date : 2011-06-19
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:03 pm
Read the article and it is incomplete. Just a BASIC synopsis and not really ALL the info needed to acess the new regulations...rick152
Again the one sided media does a fine job of NOT informing
Again the one sided media does a fine job of NOT informing
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by revenuerog Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:03 pm
wow...as a disabled vet, I haven't [b]dealt with the IRS is YEARS...I"m gonna need some serious help... 
*****************
"If you think the cost of success is high, wait until you get the bill for failure."
~Charlie Ragus
revenuerog- Elite Member
- Posts : 367
Join date : 2011-07-19
Age : 63 -
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:05 pm
Heres the law governing form 8938. Your tight it dose not apply, unles you have an account abroad with your dinar in it.
26 U.S.C. §6038D. Information with respect to foreign financial assets
(a) In general
Any individual who, during any taxable year, holds any interest in a specified foreign financial asset shall attach to such person's return of tax imposed by subtitle A for such taxable year the information described in subsection (c) with respect to each such asset if the aggregate value of all such assets exceeds $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary may prescribe).
(b) Specified foreign financial assets
For purposes of this section, the term “specified foreign financial asset” means—
(1) any financial account (as defined in section 1471(d)(2)) maintained by a foreign financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(4)), and
(2) any of the following assets which are not held in an account maintained by a financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(5))—
(A) any stock or security issued by a person other than a United States person,
(B) any financial instrument or contract held for investment that has an issuer or counterparty which is other than a United States person, and
(C) any interest in a foreign entity (as defined in section 1473).
(c) Required information
The information described in this subsection with respect to any asset is:
(1) In the case of any account, the name and address of the financial institution in which such account is maintained and the number of such account.
(2) In the case of any stock or security, the name and address of the issuer and such information as is necessary to identify the class or issue of which such stock or security is a part.
(3) In the case of any other instrument, contract, or interest—
(A) such information as is necessary to identify such instrument, contract, or interest, and
(B) the names and addresses of all issuers and counterparties with respect to such instrument, contract, or interest.
(4) The maximum value of the asset during the taxable year.
(d) Penalty for failure to disclose
(1) In general
If any individual fails to furnish the information described in subsection (c) with respect to any taxable year at the time and in the manner described in subsection (a), such person shall pay a penalty of $10,000.
(2) Increase in penalty where failure continues after notification
If any failure described in paragraph (1) continues for more than 90 days after the day on which the Secretary mails notice of such failure to the individual, such individual shall pay a penalty (in addition to the penalties under paragraph (1)) of $10,000 for each 30-day period (or fraction thereof) during which such failure continues after the expiration of such 90-day period. The penalty imposed under this paragraph with respect to any failure shall not exceed $50,000.
(e) Presumption that value of specified foreign financial assets exceeds dollar threshold
If—
(1) the Secretary determines that an individual has an interest in one or more specified foreign financial assets, and
(2) such individual does not provide sufficient information to demonstrate the aggregate value of such assets,
then the aggregate value of such assets shall be treated as being in excess of $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary prescribes for purposes of subsection (a)) for purposes of assessing the penalties imposed under this section.
(f) Application to certain entities
To the extent provided by the Secretary in regulations or other guidance, the provisions of this section shall apply to any domestic entity which is formed or availed of for purposes of holding, directly or indirectly, specified foreign financial assets, in the same manner as if such entity were an individual.
(g) Reasonable cause exception
No penalty shall be imposed by this section on any failure which is shown to be due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect. The fact that a foreign jurisdiction would impose a civil or criminal penalty on the taxpayer (or any other person) for disclosing the required information is not reasonable cause.
(h) Regulations
The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance which provide appropriate exceptions from the application of this section in the case of—
(1) classes of assets identified by the Secretary, including any assets with respect to which the Secretary determines that disclosure under this section would be duplicative of other disclosures,
(2) nonresident aliens, and
(3) bona fide residents of any possession of the United States.
(Added Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(a), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 109.)
Effective Date
Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(c), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 110, provided that: “The amendments made by this section [enacting this section] shall apply to taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act [Mar. 18, 2010].”
26 U.S.C. §6038D. Information with respect to foreign financial assets
(a) In general
Any individual who, during any taxable year, holds any interest in a specified foreign financial asset shall attach to such person's return of tax imposed by subtitle A for such taxable year the information described in subsection (c) with respect to each such asset if the aggregate value of all such assets exceeds $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary may prescribe).
(b) Specified foreign financial assets
For purposes of this section, the term “specified foreign financial asset” means—
(1) any financial account (as defined in section 1471(d)(2)) maintained by a foreign financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(4)), and
(2) any of the following assets which are not held in an account maintained by a financial institution (as defined in section 1471(d)(5))—
(A) any stock or security issued by a person other than a United States person,
(B) any financial instrument or contract held for investment that has an issuer or counterparty which is other than a United States person, and
(C) any interest in a foreign entity (as defined in section 1473).
(c) Required information
The information described in this subsection with respect to any asset is:
(1) In the case of any account, the name and address of the financial institution in which such account is maintained and the number of such account.
(2) In the case of any stock or security, the name and address of the issuer and such information as is necessary to identify the class or issue of which such stock or security is a part.
(3) In the case of any other instrument, contract, or interest—
(A) such information as is necessary to identify such instrument, contract, or interest, and
(B) the names and addresses of all issuers and counterparties with respect to such instrument, contract, or interest.
(4) The maximum value of the asset during the taxable year.
(d) Penalty for failure to disclose
(1) In general
If any individual fails to furnish the information described in subsection (c) with respect to any taxable year at the time and in the manner described in subsection (a), such person shall pay a penalty of $10,000.
(2) Increase in penalty where failure continues after notification
If any failure described in paragraph (1) continues for more than 90 days after the day on which the Secretary mails notice of such failure to the individual, such individual shall pay a penalty (in addition to the penalties under paragraph (1)) of $10,000 for each 30-day period (or fraction thereof) during which such failure continues after the expiration of such 90-day period. The penalty imposed under this paragraph with respect to any failure shall not exceed $50,000.
(e) Presumption that value of specified foreign financial assets exceeds dollar threshold
If—
(1) the Secretary determines that an individual has an interest in one or more specified foreign financial assets, and
(2) such individual does not provide sufficient information to demonstrate the aggregate value of such assets,
then the aggregate value of such assets shall be treated as being in excess of $50,000 (or such higher dollar amount as the Secretary prescribes for purposes of subsection (a)) for purposes of assessing the penalties imposed under this section.
(f) Application to certain entities
To the extent provided by the Secretary in regulations or other guidance, the provisions of this section shall apply to any domestic entity which is formed or availed of for purposes of holding, directly or indirectly, specified foreign financial assets, in the same manner as if such entity were an individual.
(g) Reasonable cause exception
No penalty shall be imposed by this section on any failure which is shown to be due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect. The fact that a foreign jurisdiction would impose a civil or criminal penalty on the taxpayer (or any other person) for disclosing the required information is not reasonable cause.
(h) Regulations
The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance which provide appropriate exceptions from the application of this section in the case of—
(1) classes of assets identified by the Secretary, including any assets with respect to which the Secretary determines that disclosure under this section would be duplicative of other disclosures,
(2) nonresident aliens, and
(3) bona fide residents of any possession of the United States.
(Added Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(a), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 109.)
Effective Date
Pub. L. 111–147, title V, §511(c), Mar. 18, 2010, 124 Stat. 110, provided that: “The amendments made by this section [enacting this section] shall apply to taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act [Mar. 18, 2010].”
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:07 pm
.....And what are the new regulations? No one has provided them, except the law above, which is nothing new and it controls the 8938 form. AJ
rick152 wrote:Read the article and it is incomplete. Just a BASIC synopsis and not really ALL the info needed to acess the new regulations...rick152
Again the one sided media does a fine job of NOT informing
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:27 pm
This part here Means cash of a foriegn country NOT held in any institution but is backed up by such as CBI
(B) any financial instrument or contract held for investment that has an
issuer or counterparty which is other than a United States person, and
A "financial instrument" among other things, means CASH
"Contract" in this context among other things means CASH
"issuer or counter party" among other things means. the C B I
PEOPLE PLEASE SEEK THE "INTERREPRETATION" OF A cpa BEFORE YOU DO GET INTO TROUBLE IF YOU FIT INTO THE PERAMITERS. For a list of these peramiters see this thread where I addressed (along with other opinions) this subject just the other day...
http://dinardaily.forumotion.com/t14293-my-take-on-form-8938-lets-put-it-to-rest
rick152
OH and by the way I have already sought the advise of CPA and they're OPINION and INTERREPRETATION
Please peeps do not be misled by emotion here it could cost you
(B) any financial instrument or contract held for investment that has an
issuer or counterparty which is other than a United States person, and
A "financial instrument" among other things, means CASH
"Contract" in this context among other things means CASH
"issuer or counter party" among other things means. the C B I
PEOPLE PLEASE SEEK THE "INTERREPRETATION" OF A cpa BEFORE YOU DO GET INTO TROUBLE IF YOU FIT INTO THE PERAMITERS. For a list of these peramiters see this thread where I addressed (along with other opinions) this subject just the other day...
http://dinardaily.forumotion.com/t14293-my-take-on-form-8938-lets-put-it-to-rest
rick152
OH and by the way I have already sought the advise of CPA and they're OPINION and INTERREPRETATION
Please peeps do not be misled by emotion here it could cost you
Last edited by rick152 on Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by dinar43 Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:28 pm
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/article/0,,id=251217,00.html
dinar43- New Member
- Posts : 4
Join date : 2011-06-17
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by lexie Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:31 pm
Kevind53 wrote:I am 90% sure I saw this in another section ... but do not have time to look ... maybe one of the other mods could merge? GTG adios
Kevin, Yes, it could be posted else where in our forum....didn't see!! Member ECOE posted into chat this afternoon.
Thanks, lexie
*****************
"WHEN THE POWER OF LOVE OVERCOMES THE LOVE OF POWER, THE WORLD WILL KNOW PEACE"
lexie- Elite Member
- Posts : 1812
Join date : 2011-06-24
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by lipster Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:50 pm
Why not take every grain of salt ( news that is ) and state it is directed towards the Dinar. It gets peoples hope up. I have said this many times, buy what you can afford. Do not be greedy. Do not over buy, especially on reports saying it is happening now. We all know as much as the next guy and hope it RV's. Merry Christmas.
lipster- New Member
- Posts : 16
Join date : 2011-07-01
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by ccpeanut Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:05 pm
I have read the Q&A for form 8938, "Do I need to file Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets"?, and the Instructions for Form 8938. From what I understand, if the value at the end of 2011 is more than $50,000.00, then one must file the form. If it doesn't RV before Dec. 31, 2011, the value of, let's say, $5 Mil Dinar is roughly $5000.00... based on .0008/dinar. It would make sense then, that the average dinar holder, from what I have heard is, $1 Mil Dinar. would not have to file that form. It is only after it RV's, that one would have to file the form.
Also, if "Grandma", who doesn't have to file taxes because she is living on social security and is 87 years old, doesn't need to file form 8938 whether it RV's or not. Is this correct?
Wouldn't it behoove the US to make sure the Dinar revalues prior to Dec. 31, 2011, to make sure they get as much in taxes and penalties as possible?
Also, if "Grandma", who doesn't have to file taxes because she is living on social security and is 87 years old, doesn't need to file form 8938 whether it RV's or not. Is this correct?
Wouldn't it behoove the US to make sure the Dinar revalues prior to Dec. 31, 2011, to make sure they get as much in taxes and penalties as possible?
ccpeanut- New Member
- Posts : 2
Join date : 2011-07-30
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:14 pm
It does not apply period unless you have your dinar in an offshore account. AJ
ccpeanut wrote:I have read the Q&A for form 8938, "Do I need to file Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets"?, and the Instructions for Form 8938. From what I understand, if the value at the end of 2011 is more than $50,000.00, then one must file the form. If it doesn't RV before Dec. 31, 2011, the value of, let's say, $5 Mil Dinar is roughly $5000.00... based on .0008/dinar. It would make sense then, that the average dinar holder, from what I have heard is, $1 Mil Dinar. would not have to file that form. It is only after it RV's, that one would have to file the form.
Also, if "Grandma", who doesn't have to file taxes because she is living on social security and is 87 years old, doesn't need to file form 8938 whether it RV's or not. Is this correct?
Wouldn't it behoove the US to make sure the Dinar revalues prior to Dec. 31, 2011, to make sure they get as much in taxes and penalties as possible?
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by ccpeanut Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:18 pm
Thanks, AJ. I was wondering that, too, when I read offshore account.
ccpeanut- New Member
- Posts : 2
Join date : 2011-07-30
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by starship1 Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:32 pm
AJAnderson"]It does not apply period unless you have your dinar in an offshore account. AJ
AJ - Thank you got backing up what I tried to point out about the IQD. Some people refuse to be comforted and if there is no RV by 12/31/11 - then let those that feel compelled to tell the IRS they are owners of IQD have at it. And, even if they were correct in their interpretation of the 8938 and thought they must report dinar - it is only if your IQD value exceeds 50K for a single person and 100K for joint return - when converted to US $$ value. Based on the current value of the dinar a person would have to own close to 60 million dinar and joint filers well over 100 million. So, it is kind of a moot point. There are a few that own huge amounts of dinar. I have an acquaintance that has 30 million dinar, but he is the exception rather then the rule. I am not telling the IRS about my dinar till it RV's and I cash in. Peace - Merry Christmas, All.
AJ - Thank you got backing up what I tried to point out about the IQD. Some people refuse to be comforted and if there is no RV by 12/31/11 - then let those that feel compelled to tell the IRS they are owners of IQD have at it. And, even if they were correct in their interpretation of the 8938 and thought they must report dinar - it is only if your IQD value exceeds 50K for a single person and 100K for joint return - when converted to US $$ value. Based on the current value of the dinar a person would have to own close to 60 million dinar and joint filers well over 100 million. So, it is kind of a moot point. There are a few that own huge amounts of dinar. I have an acquaintance that has 30 million dinar, but he is the exception rather then the rule. I am not telling the IRS about my dinar till it RV's and I cash in. Peace - Merry Christmas, All.
starship1- Active Member
- Posts : 58
Join date : 2011-06-19
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by rick152 Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:36 pm
Once again I will state that what you said (in a blanket statement is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE) and I would love you to show me EXACTLY where this says ONLY IF ON DEPOSIT SOMEWHERE ? ANYWHERE?????
I submit to you that you cannot.
If anyone here or any other site takes your statement verbatum, and they will. Who exactly is going to pay the 10K per month in fees??? PLUS the 40% interest???
EVERYONE DO NOT LISTEN TO THAT IRRESPONSIBLE STATEMENT, CALL YOUR CPA OR ACCOUNTANT
Here is the qoute from what you posted...OK I will pretend I am in Missouri...Show me
My friends I am very adiment about this ...protect your self I have already conversed with a CPA and an accountant, I am not ranting just hear my self talk This is serious and I am looking out for ALL of us. Love each other and your self...rick152
(c) Required information
The information described in this subsection with respect to any asset is:
(1)
In the case of any account, the name and address of the financial
institution in which such account is maintained and the number of such
account.
(2) In the case of any stock or security, the name and
address of the issuer and such information as is necessary to identify
the class or issue of which such stock or security is a part.
(3) In the case of any other instrument, contract, or interest—
(A) such information as is necessary to identify such instrument, contract, or interest, and
(B) the names and addresses of all issuers and counterparties with respect to such instrument, contract, or interest.
(4) The maximum value of the asset during the taxable year.
(d) Penalty for failure to disclose
(1) In general
If
any individual fails to furnish the information described in subsection
(c) with respect to any taxable year at the time and in the manner
described in subsection (a), such person shall pay a penalty of $10,000.
(2) Increase in penalty where failure continues after notification
If
any failure described in paragraph (1) continues for more than 90 days
after the day on which the Secretary mails notice of such failure to the
individual, such individual shall pay a penalty (in addition to the
penalties under paragraph (1)) of $10,000 for each 30-day period (or
fraction thereof) during which such failure continues after the
expiration of such 90-day period. The penalty imposed under this
paragraph with respect to any failure shall not exceed $50,000.
I submit to you that you cannot.
If anyone here or any other site takes your statement verbatum, and they will. Who exactly is going to pay the 10K per month in fees??? PLUS the 40% interest???
EVERYONE DO NOT LISTEN TO THAT IRRESPONSIBLE STATEMENT, CALL YOUR CPA OR ACCOUNTANT
Here is the qoute from what you posted...OK I will pretend I am in Missouri...Show me
My friends I am very adiment about this ...protect your self I have already conversed with a CPA and an accountant, I am not ranting just hear my self talk This is serious and I am looking out for ALL of us. Love each other and your self...rick152
(c) Required information
The information described in this subsection with respect to any asset is:
(1)
In the case of any account, the name and address of the financial
institution in which such account is maintained and the number of such
account.
(2) In the case of any stock or security, the name and
address of the issuer and such information as is necessary to identify
the class or issue of which such stock or security is a part.
(3) In the case of any other instrument, contract, or interest—
(A) such information as is necessary to identify such instrument, contract, or interest, and
(B) the names and addresses of all issuers and counterparties with respect to such instrument, contract, or interest.
(4) The maximum value of the asset during the taxable year.
(d) Penalty for failure to disclose
(1) In general
If
any individual fails to furnish the information described in subsection
(c) with respect to any taxable year at the time and in the manner
described in subsection (a), such person shall pay a penalty of $10,000.
(2) Increase in penalty where failure continues after notification
If
any failure described in paragraph (1) continues for more than 90 days
after the day on which the Secretary mails notice of such failure to the
individual, such individual shall pay a penalty (in addition to the
penalties under paragraph (1)) of $10,000 for each 30-day period (or
fraction thereof) during which such failure continues after the
expiration of such 90-day period. The penalty imposed under this
paragraph with respect to any failure shall not exceed $50,000.
*****************
Love understands, Love supports, comforts and, cares for. Love forgives. Love also honors, respects and, believes
so please;
Love each other and yourself ...rick152
rick152- VIP Member
- Posts : 2574
Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 65
Location : Eastern Ohio
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Kevind53 Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:42 pm
Merged 3 overlapping topics
*****************
Trust but Verify --- R Reagan
"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you."1 Thessalonians 5:14–18
Kevind53- Super Moderator
- Posts : 27252
Join date : 2011-08-09
Age : 24
Location : Umm right here!
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by therealbutterfly Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:45 pm
Ok, so why is this even being debated between any of us? The only answer that should be given on this topic is go see the PROFESSIONALS and they will know what to do. So far we have 7 diff answers on this from people we dont know. No offense but I dont trust any of you guys lol. I will meet with my professional CPA's and see what they say about it. JMHO
*****************
therealbutterfly- Elite Member
- Posts : 2416
Join date : 2011-08-02
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Kevind53 Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:27 pm
therealbutterfly wrote:Ok, so why is this even being debated between any of us? The only answer that should be given on this topic is go see the PROFESSIONALS and they will know what to do. So far we have 7 diff answers on this from people we dont know. No offense but I dont trust any of you guys lol. I will meet with my professional CPA's and see what they say about it. JMHO
Yep ... I agree ... If anyone I would trust AJ knowing a little of his background ... but still wisdom is to consult a professional you know and trust ... and will be there for you if the IRS comes knocking.
*****************
Trust but Verify --- R Reagan
"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you."1 Thessalonians 5:14–18
Kevind53- Super Moderator
- Posts : 27252
Join date : 2011-08-09
Age : 24
Location : Umm right here!
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:36 am
Here is the key in the IRS Article below. "The Form 8938 filing requirement was enacted in 2010 to improve tax compliance by U.S. taxpayers with offshore financial accounts."
Offshore finacial accounts is the key, along with the thresholds. Unless your dinar is deposited in an offshore account, like an Iraq bank account, there is no required filing of this form. Also read the law I posted above along with the instructions, they all state the same.
AJ
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=251216,00.html
Update Dec. 21, 2011 —Form 8938 and its instructions are now available on page Form 8938, Statement of Foreign Financial Assets.
IR-2011-117, Dec. 14, 2011
WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service in coming days will release a new information reporting form that taxpayers will use starting this coming tax filing season to report specified foreign financial assets for tax year 2011.
Form 8938 (Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets) will be filed by taxpayers with specific types and amounts of foreign financial assets or foreign accounts. It is important for taxpayers to determine whether they are subject to this new requirement because the law imposes significant penalties for failing to comply.
The Form 8938 filing requirement was enacted in 2010 to improve tax compliance by U.S. taxpayers with offshore financial accounts. Individuals who may have to file Form 8938 are U.S. citizens and residents, nonresidents who elect to file a joint income tax return and certain nonresidents who live in a U.S. territory.
Form 8938 is required when the total value of specified foreign assets exceeds certain thresholds. For example, a married couple living in the U.S. and filing a joint tax return would not file Form 8938 unless their total specified foreign assets exceed $100,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $150,000 at any time during the tax year.
The thresholds for taxpayers who reside abroad are higher. For example in this case, a married couple residing abroad and filing a joint return would not file Form 8938 unless the value of specified foreign assets exceeds $400,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $600,000 at any time during the year.
Instructions for Form 8938 explain the thresholds for reporting, what constitutes a specified foreign financial asset, how to determine the total value of relevant assets, what assets are exempted, and what information must be provided.
Form 8938 is not required of individuals who do not have an income tax return filing requirement.
The new Form 8938 filing requirement does not replace or otherwise affect a taxpayer’s obligation to file an FBAR (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts). For more go to the FBAR page on this website.
Failing to file Form 8938 when required could result in a $10,000 penalty, with an additional penalty up to $50,000 for continued failure to file after IRS notification. A 40 percent penalty on any understatement of tax attributable to non-disclosed assets can also be imposed. Special statute of limitation rules apply to Form 8938, which are also explained in the instructions.
Form 8938, the form’s instructions, regulations implementing this new foreign asset reporting, and other information to help taxpayers determine if they are required to file Form 8938 can be found on the FATCA page of irs.gov.
See TD 9567.
Offshore finacial accounts is the key, along with the thresholds. Unless your dinar is deposited in an offshore account, like an Iraq bank account, there is no required filing of this form. Also read the law I posted above along with the instructions, they all state the same.
AJ
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=251216,00.html
Update Dec. 21, 2011 —Form 8938 and its instructions are now available on page Form 8938, Statement of Foreign Financial Assets.
IR-2011-117, Dec. 14, 2011
WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service in coming days will release a new information reporting form that taxpayers will use starting this coming tax filing season to report specified foreign financial assets for tax year 2011.
Form 8938 (Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets) will be filed by taxpayers with specific types and amounts of foreign financial assets or foreign accounts. It is important for taxpayers to determine whether they are subject to this new requirement because the law imposes significant penalties for failing to comply.
The Form 8938 filing requirement was enacted in 2010 to improve tax compliance by U.S. taxpayers with offshore financial accounts. Individuals who may have to file Form 8938 are U.S. citizens and residents, nonresidents who elect to file a joint income tax return and certain nonresidents who live in a U.S. territory.
Form 8938 is required when the total value of specified foreign assets exceeds certain thresholds. For example, a married couple living in the U.S. and filing a joint tax return would not file Form 8938 unless their total specified foreign assets exceed $100,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $150,000 at any time during the tax year.
The thresholds for taxpayers who reside abroad are higher. For example in this case, a married couple residing abroad and filing a joint return would not file Form 8938 unless the value of specified foreign assets exceeds $400,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $600,000 at any time during the year.
Instructions for Form 8938 explain the thresholds for reporting, what constitutes a specified foreign financial asset, how to determine the total value of relevant assets, what assets are exempted, and what information must be provided.
Form 8938 is not required of individuals who do not have an income tax return filing requirement.
The new Form 8938 filing requirement does not replace or otherwise affect a taxpayer’s obligation to file an FBAR (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts). For more go to the FBAR page on this website.
Failing to file Form 8938 when required could result in a $10,000 penalty, with an additional penalty up to $50,000 for continued failure to file after IRS notification. A 40 percent penalty on any understatement of tax attributable to non-disclosed assets can also be imposed. Special statute of limitation rules apply to Form 8938, which are also explained in the instructions.
Form 8938, the form’s instructions, regulations implementing this new foreign asset reporting, and other information to help taxpayers determine if they are required to file Form 8938 can be found on the FATCA page of irs.gov.
See TD 9567.
starship1 wrote:AJAnderson"]It does not apply period unless you have your dinar in an offshore account. AJ
AJ - Thank you got backing up what I tried to point out about the IQD. Some people refuse to be comforted and if there is no RV by 12/31/11 - then let those that feel compelled to tell the IRS they are owners of IQD have at it. And, even if they were correct in their interpretation of the 8938 and thought they must report dinar - it is only if your IQD value exceeds 50K for a single person and 100K for joint return - when converted to US $$ value. Based on the current value of the dinar a person would have to own close to 60 million dinar and joint filers well over 100 million. So, it is kind of a moot point. There are a few that own huge amounts of dinar. I have an acquaintance that has 30 million dinar, but he is the exception rather then the rule. I am not telling the IRS about my dinar till it RV's and I cash in. Peace - Merry Christmas, All.
Guest- Guest
Re: My take on form 8938, lets put it to rest
by Guest Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:40 am
Because we have boards like PTR who are saying you have to file this form if you just hold dinar inside the US and that has flowed over here. See the IRS Article I posted above, this should clear things up. AJ
therealbutterfly wrote:Ok, so why is this even being debated between any of us? The only answer that should be given on this topic is go see the PROFESSIONALS and they will know what to do. So far we have 7 diff answers on this from people we dont know. No offense but I dont trust any of you guys lol. I will meet with my professional CPA's and see what they say about it. JMHO
Guest- Guest
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
» IRAQI DINAR REVALUATION: Investment Expert VS @theoriginalmarkz // Track Record Comparison
» Dinar Daily Facebook Page
» I The Savior Only Share The Divine Solution For World Financial System In My Own Condition
» Tony's annual holiday cheer
» All Great Educating Savior’s Books Are For Sales Now
» Hi ???????? everyone, I'm new.
» Future Of World Monetary System Is The Hybrid Between Physical Asset & Fiat Currency
» 10/7 — Much More Dangerous & Diabolical Than Anyone Knows
» Only The Old Religions Can Save This Civilization From Total Collapse Destruction
» Old phony Tony beating that same dead horse.
» I The Savior Legend Is Going To Release The Divine World Solution In November 2023
» The Global Currency Reset Evolution Event Will Begin With Gold, Zimbabwe ZWR Old Bank Notes
» My Plan Of Travel To Taiwan, Singapore, India To Release Divine World Solution Is Off
» The Divine World Peace Solution Releasing Process, Timeline
» Video - Circus Of GateKeeper A.K.A. Fruit Loop
» Mnt Goat says -- I was...told [by my CBI contact in Iraq] not to over-speculate on the RV and the CBI has a plan and is actively working on it.
» New life into an old clown
» Tuesday Evening News with MarkZ
» Dollar prices decline in Iraq amidst market volatility (What's the CBI Rate Again? LOL)