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Are you tired of Income Tax!

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Post by Guest Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 pm

Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.

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Post by GoldPeg9 Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:12 pm

There is a LOT written about this.

If you google - illegal income tax - a myriad of web sites come up.

here are two: http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/income-tax-constitutional.asp#axzz1g0UzGktK

and

http://www.paynoincometax.com/



AJAnderson wrote:Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.

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Post by spelunker Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:25 pm

This documentary from Aaron Russo was released a number of years ago and is one I introduce to people often...

America: Freedom to Fascism

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

Peace!
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Post by Guest Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:26 pm

This site http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/income-tax-constitutional.asp#axzz1g0UzGktK tells some good history about the income tax, but also tells lies to the American public about what really created the income tax. I can asure you it was not the 16th Amendment since it was ruled it creatred no new taxing authority.

The second site posted, I know Sciff personally after meeting him in Portland Oregon, he offered me a job with his group. He has some pretty good arguments, but we seen where that got him. He still does not touch on where and how the income tax was created. AJ

GoldPeg9 wrote:There is a LOT written about this.

If you google - illegal income tax - a myriad of web sites come up.

here are two: http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/income-tax-constitutional.asp#axzz1g0UzGktK

and

http://www.paynoincometax.com/



AJAnderson wrote:Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.


Last edited by AJAnderson on Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Kevind53 Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:27 pm

Well for starters Article 1 section 8 Section 8:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The 16th Amendment:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration

As to the amending process itself, Article 5:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

BTW for those who insist we have a democracy, may I present Article 4 Section 4:
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

*****************
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"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you."1 Thessalonians 5:14–18

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Post by Guest Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:28 pm

Aaron Russo is good.

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Post by Guest Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:37 pm

It was ruled that the income tax was found to be unconstitutional under article 1 sec 8 as a direct tax, but I do agree later on it became an excise tax by voluntary compliance and it was ruled that the 16th Amendment created no new taxing authority. I like the Republic Form of Governemnt, but that does not mean it is a democracy. In fact the government admits a democracy is a perversion of a constitutioanl republic, but I am not going there in this thread, we will touch on that in another when the time comes. AJ

Kevind53 wrote:Well for starters Article 1 section 8 Section 8:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The 16th Amendment:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration

As to the amending process itself, Article 5:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

BTW for those who insist we have a democracy, may I present Article 4 Section 4:
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.


Last edited by AJAnderson on Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by spelunker Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:54 pm

AJAnderson wrote:Aaron Russo is good.

It's quite an education. Most folks are not interested in, and do not take the time to understand, how their money system works. Unless one really invests the time into this, you are essentially uniformed about a fundamental function of our dysfunctional (mostly fraudulent) society.

After digesting Aaron Russo's work, I also urge people to view the video I posted yesterday here: http://dinardaily.forumotion.com/t13184-why-banking-must-fundamentally-change-mortgage-fraud

Peace!
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Post by Peppermint Patti Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:22 am

We studied under a man that taught us much. Without voluntary compliance there would be no income tax...

I volunteered because we made a living using this money. It was my career long before I learned the truth.

I used to tell the man he was going to end up in jail for teaching as he did and I'll never forget his response: "that's okay, I have a lot of studying to do and that would afford me the time".

Yes, he went to jail, but not for teaching but for money laundering... Taking in cash payments through the mail. In his way he was doing his best for this country. The only problem I see, there are ways to do things and there are ways to not do things... He definately went about it the wrong way.

The right way is the voting booth. If you don't like something in this Country, step up to the plate and vote for the right candidate. That mans time would have come now if he is still alive. Some of you may have seen him as he made it to 20/20...

Guess we can all do our best each day praying that The Good Lord would bring about the change that is so desperately needed and God help those that would do harm to His Chosen people and the Country he has so richly blessed...

Happy days at least for now are right around the bend... I can't wait for a break from the everyday pressures... We are so close people that it almost scares me... I don't think it will be as easy as people think making wise decisions on how to proceed.

Best wishes for all of you,

Peppermint Patti...
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Post by spelunker Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:28 am

Peppermint Patti wrote:
The right way is the voting booth. If you don't like something in this Country, step up to the plate and vote for the right candidate.


Proven voting fraud! Gov't programmer testifies voting machines are rigging elections

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4aKOhbbK9E

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Post by Woodie0007 Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:02 am

We need to go back to paper ballots
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Post by roadglide Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:19 am

AJAnderson wrote:Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.
This information is also in 'Hard, Cold IRS Facts' and 'The Whole Truth about the IRS and the Bible'.

http://fyels.com/zTS
This work deals with with Christian responsibility to Government. Shouldyou obey a government that is immoral, satanic, and functions outsidethe parameters of God's laws? Find out the truth concerning this issue, as well as, the whole truth concerning the IRS. This ishistorically, grammatically, and Biblically accurate.

Here
are the supporting downloads that could become an indispensable part
of your library.
http://howyoubecomeliable.com
Find out who is actually liable to file and pay an "Income Tax"...This is the actual law. Can you handle it?

http://fyels.com/V0l
INCOME
TAX FLOW CHART... 100% accurate one page chart that explains who is and
who is NOT liable for "Income Tax". Find out how the tax code works in
15 minutes.


http://fyels.com/w0l
272 Page book, entitled CRACKING THE CODE. This book sells for over $25.00, but you can have it FREE on this PDF Format. The author of this book has paid the price so that we all can be free of this parasitic Alphabet Bandit.

http://fyels.com/tkl
CONSTRUCTIVE
NOTICE OF NON- TAXPAYER. No one, even the so-called "tax court" can
dance around this one. This is the most accurate and to the point document of its kind.


http://fyels.com/zrt
Documented IRS and Federal Reserve Facts. I defy any CPA or Tax Attorney to lawfully prove that the above
information
is not the REAL LAW. It is time we all stand up and demand that our
elected Officials obey the RULE OF LAW. All of us who care about our
children's freedom MUST stop participating in this Fraud!

*****************
“When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn” Proverbs 29:2
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Post by Woodie0007 Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:44 am

I pay my taxes whats wrong with supporting our country Its not the tax its how it gets used is that what you mean? I do not understand not paying anyway Give unto Caesar what is his.
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Post by roadglide Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:58 am

spelunker wrote:This documentary from Aaron Russo was released a number of years ago and is one I introduce to people often...

America: Freedom to Fascism

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

Peace!
Aaron Russo is an American Hero in my book. Too bad he passed before he could see his work come to fruition.
Please go to Threads, 'Hard, Cold IRS Facts', and 'The Whole Truth about the IRS and the Bible'.

*****************
“When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn” Proverbs 29:2
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Post by Guest Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:02 am

Ok guys and gals, this thread is not about whether you pay or whether you do not pay income taxes or about links to other sites on why or why not you should pay income taxes. I agree that taxes have to be collected to support this country, but that is left in the true law and should be abided by on both sides of the counter and that means the government too!

This thread is meant to be an educational thread to teach on how we got to where we are in history and what we as a people did to subject ourselves to the income tax and believe me it was by your own choosing.

By no means am I suggesting that you do not pay your income taxes, because that would most likely put you in "Yale" (jail) to learn something and at best, brake you to the starting point of nothingness!

So, do you want to get on with the history lesson? or do you want to agrue about what you should do or what you should not do?

Peppermint Pattie is quite right, if you want to make changes do it at the ballot box!

AJ

Woodie0007 wrote:I pay my taxes whats wrong with supporting our country Its not the tax its how it gets used is that what you mean? I do not understand not paying anyway Give unto Caesar what is his.

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Post by roadglide Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:10 am

Woodie0007 wrote:I pay my taxes whats wrong with supporting our country Its not the tax its how it gets used is that what you mean? I do not understand not paying anyway Give unto Caesar what is his.
No dis-respect intended, Woodie0007, but you need to undo some of your programming. None of the Income Tax goes to support our country. It all goes to the banksters that own and control the Federal Reserve. All of the compelled benefits and other social programs come from borrowing fiat money from the banksters. They now own you, and everyone else, unless we do something about it right now.
This country would run perfectly through the use of lawful taxes. For example, have you ever stopped to thinks about how much they make off of just gasoline tax. That is where the money comes from to build highways and roads.
Please go here and download, 'HOW TO REGAIN YOUR FREEDOM'
http://fyels.com/zTS
This work deals with with Christian responsibility to
Government. Should you obey a government that is immoral, satanic, and
functions outside the parameters of God's laws? Find out the truth
concerning this issue, as well as, the whole truth concerning the IRS.
This is historically, grammatically, and Biblically accurate.

*****************
“When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn” Proverbs 29:2
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Post by roadglide Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:17 am

AJAnderson wrote:Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.
Please go here, and your question will be answered quickly and truthfully, guaranteed: http://howyoubecomeliable.com


*****************
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Post by Peppermint Patti Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:20 am

Speklur, you are right about that voter fraud. I don't even have to watch your voter fraud U-tube. About a year ago I saw a woman on Gretta's show. She said she had 100% proof that "O" stole the election from Hilary. Gretta asked her why she didn't come forward - big mistake for Gretta... The woman said I spoke with every TV station including the manager of yours and he wasn't the least bit interested. So my question to you Gretta, why didn't he want the story either. Gretta was silenced, just didn't know what to say about that.

Then about 6 months ago I read about the guy that is the top engineer (believe that is his official title) for the voter machines who was approached and he was asked to fix the machines for the upcoming election. He refused and said there was no way he would get involved with that. I was very surprised that he went public with that, but God Bless Him, he did... Only saw that story once also...

Now if these people are telling the truth, we are in far more serious trouble than we realize.

________________________________________________________

"Only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last"


Last edited by Peppermint Patti on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot something...)
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Post by Guest Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:21 am

I already know the answers to the questions I poised in the first section. AJ

roadglide wrote:
AJAnderson wrote:Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.
Please go here, and your question will be answered quickly and truthfully, guaranteed: http://howyoubecomeliable.com


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Post by Woodie0007 Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:21 am

Jesus Said GIVE UNTO CAESAR WHAT IS HIS. I live by the word of GOD do you want me to deprogram Jesus. Walk in the light of he who loves you more than you love yourself Are we not worth more than the birds of the field Be not attached to this earth It is easier for a camel to fit thru the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God These things all were said by my lord and savior Deprogram no thanks.
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Post by Peppermint Patti Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:32 am

For all of you who believe the Federal Reserve Bank is CAESAR, well, you need to do some studying...

If we would only do like Germany way back when they were facing the same financial situation we are now, we could be out of debt in no time al all. You stop 99% of the taxes and only tax on goods and services. That way the people have all of their money to spend as needed and as they purchase "extra's" of the which they pay taxes on - the government makes it's money and the Country catapults itself out of debt.

___________________________________________________________________

"Only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last"
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Post by dinarstar Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:38 am

Peppermint Patti wrote:For all of you who believe the Federal Reserve Bank is CAESAR, well, you need to do some studying...

If we would only do like Germany way back when they were facing the same financial situation we are now, we could be out of debt in no time al all. You stop 99% of the taxes and only tax on goods and services. That way the people have all of their money to spend as needed and as they purchase "extra's" of the which they pay taxes on - the government makes it's money and the Country catapults itself out of debt.

___________________________________________________________________

"Only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last"

That sounds good to me PP 8) 8)

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Post by Guest Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:01 pm

If our government pays off the Federal Debt, would be a good time for the People to step up and make changes. If the government does not pay off the Federal Debt, then the People need to step up and see that the changes be made. To not do so, would mean, we the people are still being held hostage as serfs and soon to be slaves! AJ

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Post by roadglide Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:14 pm

Woodie0007 wrote:Jesus Said GIVE UNTO CAESAR WHAT IS HIS. I live by the word of GOD do you want me to deprogram Jesus. Walk in the light of he who loves you more than you love yourself Are we not worth more than the birds of the field Be not attached to this earth It is easier for a camel to fit thru the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God These things all were said by my lord and savior Deprogram no thanks.
WOW! Are you going keep on believing the lies you are being fed, or are you going to find out what the passage your are quoting really means? Please go to: http://fyels.com/zTS It is a 20 page study on this subject that get in to the real meaning of "render to Caesar". If you don't study this for yourself, you are doing yourself a huge disservice, and I feel sorry for you and those you propagate this untruth to. Even if you don't download this incredible study, you can still find out what the Bible is really saying just staying grammatically and historically accurate while studying God's Word. If you, as you say, Live by the Word of God, you will investigate these awesome truths, instead of parroting what the government and churches who are afraid to lose their constituents are telling you.
Paul calls it, "having a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge" Rom. 10:1-3

*****************
“When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn” Proverbs 29:2
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Post by Guest Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:30 pm

Ok, I give, no one really wants to know how you done this to yourself? and do not believe everything you read on the internet! The income tax issue is so simple that it can be overcome if you know and if the People stand up and say enough is enough. Pay your income and cap gain taxes the the government if you think that is the right thing to do. Or Ceazer if you call it that. do not tke this as advice! It's meant to be sarcastic! AJ

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Post by jacs1961 Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:35 pm

AJAnderson wrote:Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.




Go to www.freedomclubusa.com ...that site has alot of info on Income Tax and Fed

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Post by Guest Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:13 pm

Hint SSA 1935

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Post by roadglide Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:51 pm

Here's a thought for those who buy in to the misinterpretation of Rendering Unto Caesar.
Since this country is "Of the People, BY the People, and FOR the People", doesn't that make the People Caesar, and our elected officials and public SERVANTS subservient to us, making us their master? If you would like to know the grammatically and historically accurate meaning of these verses that are being quoted, just go to : http://fyels.com/zTS and download "How to Regain Your Freedom"
Its FREE!
PS. I am a retired pastor and Seminary Prof. This study took years of work to put together, because God put it on my heart to divulge the truth to the luke-warm Christendom that surrounds us.
As of today, 239 people from OOM have downloaded it.

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Post by GoldPeg9 Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:26 pm

Give unto Ceasar what is do to Ceasar are words written by - guess who? CEASAR! NOT Jesus! NOTHING is Due to any "Ceasar" No need to quote me any scripture either, because this would be written by the minions of "Ceasar" and inserted into the book.

If Yeshua had actually said anything like this, he would have meant "Give nothing as nothing is due."

Think about it. WHY would anyone OWE anything to Ceasar???????

I will be so thrilled when the masses have their consciousness restored so that they know the true history/herstory of this planet without relying on what someone else said or wrote.



Woodie0007 wrote:Jesus Said GIVE UNTO CAESAR WHAT IS HIS. I live by the word of GOD do you want me to deprogram Jesus. Walk in the light of he who loves you more than you love yourself Are we not worth more than the birds of the field Be not attached to this earth It is easier for a camel to fit thru the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God These things all were said by my lord and savior Deprogram no thanks.


Last edited by GoldPeg9 on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by PGLD Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:06 pm

Fact is many have tried to evade taxes using some very creative means....doesn't work and will never happen. Without taxes the US implodes and becomes a 3rd world nation. I hate taxes too, but just ask Wesley Snipes how fighting the IRS worked out for him...

Regardless of whether it's constitutional or not, or what scholarly research has uncovered regarding the illegality of taxes, at the end of the day, you pay or get free room and board in a cozy cell.
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Post by GoldPeg9 Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:19 pm

PGLD wrote:Fact is many have tried to evade taxes using some very creative means....doesn't work and will never happen. Without taxes the US implodes and becomes a 3rd world nation. I hate taxes too, but just ask Wesley Snipes how fighting the IRS worked out for him...

Regardless of whether it's constitutional or not, or what scholarly research has uncovered regarding the illegality of taxes, at the end of the day, you pay or get free room and board in a cozy cell.




No one is saying that there should be NO taxes. What is being said is that INCOME TAX is illegal. Tax on Income is NOT necessary as there are so many OTHER taxes that cover whatever is needed to be paid for by taxes.
As things are now - Income is taxed and we keep what's left after other deductions too. Then, with this "free" money - we have to buy things and pay for the taxes on those things too - so our money is taxed inadvertently, over and over and over.

And - the controllers who made up the laws to suit themselves - want everyone to think there is nothing they can do about it.

Wrong. Many, many ARE doing something about it and taxes that are thought to be unavoidable - will no longer exist.


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Post by Guest Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:40 pm

The US government is imploding itself by constitutionaly getting bigger than it has the authority to get. The US government can operate within the means left it by the constitution, but it thinks it has to be the money and muscle (bully if you will) of the world. It has no business there.

No one here is advocating the non payment of income taxes, this thread is for educational purposes only and no one here yet, including the websites that have been shown above, knows the answers to the questions I posed in the begining of this thread

For your information, I know Wesley Snipes personally and I used to talk to him on a daily basis, until his demise. I worked on his case for many many months, to advise him his 600K attorneys sold him down the river, they did nothing for his 600k except steal it. For your information he paid his fair share of taxes to be rail roaded as a tactic to instill fear in you and the rest of the American people and that's all it was. A dog and pony show at best. He used the same type of trusts and LLCs people on these boards are using, including me, done by attorneys, to minimize his taxes and was still rail roaded, only because of attorneys. So if people want to be run by fear then so be it, they will only be people and not the People the Constitution so protects.

There is only 2 lawful ways to avoid income taxes completely and one starts with birth and so at this point in time 80% or more of the people are out, with 20% that still have not reached the age of 18 who have not made the choice yet and never will become one of the People. The other way is if the 60% of the People stand up and say enough is enough and do away with the present system, but that will never happen without the right leaders in place on the government level right down the the sheriffs department.

With that said, fear will always govern until the People get educated in the proper history that cause this demise, so lets get on with the purpose of this educational regurgitation of history. i left a hint in a post above and it said SSA 1935.

AJ

PGLD wrote:Fact is many have tried to evade taxes using some very creative means....doesn't work and will never happen. Without taxes the US implodes and becomes a 3rd world nation. I hate taxes too, but just ask Wesley Snipes how fighting the IRS worked out for him...

Regardless of whether it's constitutional or not, or what scholarly research has uncovered regarding the illegality of taxes, at the end of the day, you pay or get free room and board in a cozy cell.

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Post by roadglide Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:51 pm

PGLD wrote:Fact is many have tried to evade taxes using some very creative means....doesn't work and will never happen. Without taxes the US implodes and becomes a 3rd world nation. I hate taxes too, but just ask Wesley Snipes how fighting the IRS worked out for him...

Regardless of whether it's constitutional or not, or what scholarly research has uncovered regarding the illegality of taxes, at the end of the day, you pay or get free room and board in a cozy cell.
Wesley Snipes was convicted of "Willful Failure to File". He knew truth but did not know how to apply it. If you really want to know the Whole Truth, you owe it to yourself to get this publication. In PDF it is Free. Click Here to get it.

Then if you are brave enough to take a fun little quiz to find out if you are even liable, Click Here


Last edited by roadglide on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Make the Click Here stand out more)

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Post by Kevind53 Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:20 am

AJAnderson wrote:It was ruled that the income tax was found to be unconstitutional under article 1 sec 8 as a direct tax, but I do agree later on it became an excise tax by voluntary compliance and it was ruled that the 16th Amendment created no new taxing authority. I like the Republic Form of Governemnt, but that does not mean it is a democracy. In fact the government admits a democracy is a perversion of a constitutioanl republic, but I am not going there in this thread, we will touch on that in another when the time comes. AJ

Kevind53 wrote:
The 16th Amendment:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration

AJ I agree that the Article 1 Section 8 is weak, however the 16th Amendment is pretty clear. And I totally agree with you re this being a republic as opposed to a democracy. That's why I included Article 4 Section 4 at the bottom ... while not exactly on topic, it is an important distinction and plays into almost any discussion re: federal govt and/or states rights.

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:25 am

Fact is Wesley should have never been convicted of "Wilful Failure to File", because he did file and had a relience defense, among other defenses and his attornays would not raise his defenses. In fact his attorneys called him a nut job for claiming he was not a US citizen, which he is not, he is a Moracan Citizen protected under the Morocan Treaty with the US. Fact is Wesley Snipes was also fighting for you an I. AJ

roadglide wrote:
PGLD wrote:Fact is many have tried to evade taxes using some very creative means....doesn't work and will never happen. Without taxes the US implodes and becomes a 3rd world nation. I hate taxes too, but just ask Wesley Snipes how fighting the IRS worked out for him...

Regardless of whether it's constitutional or not, or what scholarly research has uncovered regarding the illegality of taxes, at the end of the day, you pay or get free room and board in a cozy cell.
Wesley Snipes was convicted of "Willful Failure to File". He knew truth but did not know how to apply it. If you really want to know the Whole Truth, you owe it to yourself to get this publication. In PDF it is Free. Click Here to get it.

Then if you are brave enough to take a fun little quiz to find out if you are even liable, Click Here

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Post by Kevind53 Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:32 am

I have been doing some internet research and a lot of what I found are the same arguments over and over on various "anti tax" sites. I did find one law site with a pretty clear explanation of the 16th amendment and income taxes including a brief history leading up to it ... I would be curious what others think. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment16/01.html

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Post by upboaz Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:10 am

A very interesting column.. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL
Be sure to Read the Poem at the end.
Charley Reese’s final column for the Orlando Sentinel…
He has been a journalist for 49 years.
He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.
Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.
This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us every day. It’s a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!
545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?
Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?
You and I don’t propose a federal budget. The President does.
You and I don’t have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.
You and I don’t write the tax code, Congress does.
You and I don’t set fiscal policy, Congress does.
You and I don’t control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.
One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don’t care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator’s responsibility to determine how he votes.
Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.
The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House now? He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted — by present facts — of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can’t think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
If the tax code is unfair, it’s because they want it unfair.
If the budget is in the red, it’s because they want it in the red.
If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it’s because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan …
If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it’s because they want it that way.
There are no insoluble government problems.
Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like “the economy,” “inflation,” or “politics” that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.
They, and they alone, have the power.
They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses. Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees…
We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!
What you do with this article now that you have read it… is up to you.
This might be funny if it weren’t so true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he’s fed.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.
Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.
Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.
Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his tailend.
Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won’t be done
Till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He’s good and sore.
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he’s laid…
Put these words
Upon his tomb,
‘Taxes drove me
to my doom…’
When he’s gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom, if agreed, stayed home to raise the kids.

What in the heck happened? Can you spell ‘politicians?’

I hope this goes around THE USA at least 545 times!!! YOU can help it get there!!!
GO AHEAD. . . BE AN AMERICAN!!!
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Post by Guest Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:13 am

What's really funny is these law sites never mention the Brushaber case, which found the income tax unconstitutional in 1916 after the puported ratification of the 16th Amendment.

Ok now we have the educational point my questions above were meant to bring.

Kevind53 makes the argument that the 16th amendment is pretty clear do you agree with that? I do not and here is why; Article 1 section 8 states that there "shall be no direct taxes", so with that said, what did the 16th amendment achieve? It achieved nothing, because you can not abrogate an Article with an amendment, in Baltic Mining Co. v. US ruled that the 16th Amendment conferred no new taxing authority, because it abrogated Article 1 sec. 8, so that is a weak argument as well.

The 16th amendment was definitely added to the Constitution for the purpose to make the People think they were required by law to file and pay an income tax, but under Baltic, supra, the 16th was overturned, but has other authority, which we will not get into here. So what was the law that has the authority for an income tax?

First lets look at history, the Civil War income tax came down and was found to be unconstitutional when a new income tax was introduced in 1894, ostensibly to make up for lost revenues from reductions to U.S. tariffs. This tax was taken before the Supreme Court and was declared unconstitutional in the case Pollock v. Farmers' Loan and Trust Co. , So by losing on that one the Congress purported to ratify the 16th Amendment, which also was found to be unconstitutional in 1916 in the Brushaber v. Union Pacific rail Road, 240 U.S. 1, 36 S.Ct. 236. It was found in that case that that 5 of his incomes were not taxable under the 16th, but one was because it was dividends paid by the US government so the any source derived portion of the 16th only applies to government pay.

So with that said, what created the income tax and here’s the hint again SSA 1935. AJ

Kevind53 wrote:I have been doing some internet research and a lot of what I found are the same arguments over and over on various "anti tax" sites. I did find one law site with a pretty clear explanation of the 16th amendment and income taxes including a brief history leading up to it ... I would be curious what others think. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment16/01.html

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:59 am

Ok, here is another hint in the law that goes with SSA 1935.

5 USC sec 552a(a)(13)

(13) the term "Federal personnel" means officers and employees of the Government of the United States, members of the uniformed services (including members of the Reserve Components), individuals [FN2] entitled to receive immediate or deferred retirement benefits under any retirement program of the Government of the United States (including survivor benefits).

Ok, that one should really have got under your skin!

But, the above law goes along with the Brushaber case mentioned above in another post. The question is how did I become one of these Federal Personnel? Remember the first hint, SSA 1935 and read the law above again. I will get back to you on this sometime in the morning. AJ

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Post by GoldPeg9 Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:21 am

AJAnderson wrote:Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.

To me AJ, this link does answer your post.

http://mises.org/daily/1597

However - taxes go back as far as recorded history. The Illuminati wanted to enslave everyone, so through mind control and fear tactics - they forced the masses to bend under their made up rules. So called rules that they then wrote down and called them law.

If you already think you have the complete answers - just share them ok.

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Post by DevaronDLH Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:26 pm

A famous lawyer pointed out a serious flaw in the 16th Amendment which by law make the amendment ineffective. There is a missing line/phrase that should be included into the amendment but is NOT. It appears the folks who wanted this Amendment slipped into our Constitution forgot this necessary passage. Look at the other Amendments and you will find it, but it is clearly NOT in the 16th Amendment: "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation,
the provisions of this article."

Without this passage included in the Amendment it is not effective and cannot be acted upon for it gives NO actual authority to Congress to act upon the amendment.


Last edited by DevaronDLH on Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : misspelled words)
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Post by DevaronDLH Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:47 pm

PS, Someone has asked, "How did i become a Federal Person? If you look at the bottom of the SS-5 (Social Security Application form SS-5) you may notice at the bottom the words "I swear under penalty of perjury I am a United States citizen."
It appears to be a simple sentence but its fully loaded and is the one sentence you probably have no idea what it really means.
It has been researched by many lawyers and patriots and it means: By signing this statement you are actually stating that YOU are NOT an American citizen but are in fact a United States (federal) citizen. One is a sovereign and free citizen the other is a federal person subject to the laws and rules of the "United States", which according to Blacks Law dictionary is a places or places defined as: Washington DC, Guam, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, the northern Marianas islands, American Samoa and the national military bases, and other federal buildings and lands ceded to the federal government at the time of State hood.

If you were not born in or do not reside in any of these named places then YOU are NOT a United States citizen... In fact you have been duped into thinking that the words United States and America mean the same thing and they do not. You have become a victim of "Words of Art", Fraud, actual Fraud and "Fraud in the Factum".
90% of the people in this country claim to be United States citizens when in fact they are American citizens... but as they say, ignorance of the law is no defense.
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Post by Guest Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:49 pm

Its not a matter of whether a site is right or wrong or answers my questions. It a matter of others opinions and teaching what got us where we are with the switch in times and the differences of today and the interaction between us. Plain and simple it's interaction that I'm trying to create here and for another purpose as well, like getting peoples minds off the dinar. AJ

GoldPeg9 wrote:
AJAnderson wrote:Do you know, how and what Act or Constitutional Section created the Income Tax? Do you know how it was finally imposed upon the People? I would like to hear your comments and thoughts about the constituionality of the income tax.

To me AJ, this link does answer your post.

http://mises.org/daily/1597

However - taxes go back as far as recorded history. The Illuminati wanted to enslave everyone, so through mind control and fear tactics - they forced the masses to bend under their made up rules. So called rules that they then wrote down and called them law.

If you already think you have the complete answers - just share them ok.

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:53 pm

This is called an enactment clause, I have won many cases on that argument alone. We know that the 16th amendment created no new taxing authority by the case law mentioned above, in another post done by me. Baltic Minning, supra. AJ

DevaronDLH wrote:A famous lawyer pointed out a serious flaw in the 16th Amendment which by law make the amendment ineffective. There is a missing line/phrase that should be included into the amendment but is NOT. It appears the folks who wanted this Amendment slipped into our Constitution forgot this necessary passage. Look at the other Amendments and you will find it, but it is clearly NOT in the 16th Amendment: "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation,
the provisions of this article."

Without this passage included in the Amendment it is not effective and cannot be acted upon for it gives NO actual authority to Congress to act upon the amendment.


Last edited by AJAnderson on Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:04 pm

ok, now we have someone here who has done their research and has answered the hint I gave in an earlier post of SSA 1935. Once you opt into the Social Security Act by your own choice, you become one of these Federal Personal, I pointed out in 5 USC sec 552a(a)(13). So, how does this defeat Article 1 section 8 with regards to the no direct tax clause or even the 16th amendment and under what constitutional authority?



DevaronDLH wrote:PS, Someone has asked, "How did i become a Federal Person? If you look at the bottom of the SS-5 (Social Security Application form SS-5) you may notice at the bottom the words "I swear under penalty of perjury I am a United States citizen."
It appears to be a simple sentence but its fully loaded and is the one sentence you probably have no idea what it really means.
It has been researched by many lawyers and patriots and it means: By signing this statement you are actually stating that YOU are NOT an American citizen but are in fact a United States (federal) citizen. One is a sovereign and free citizen the other is a federal person subject to the laws and rules of the "United States", which according to Blacks Law dictionary is a places or places defined as: Washington DC, Guam, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, the northern Marianas islands, American Samoa and the national military bases, and other federal buildings and lands ceded to the federal government at the time of State hood.

If you were not born in or do not reside in any of these named places then YOU are NOT a United States citizen... In fact you have been duped into thinking that the words United States and America mean the same thing and they do not. You have become a victim of "Words of Art", Fraud, actual Fraud and "Fraud in the Factum".
90% of the people in this country claim to be United States citizens when in fact they are American citizens... but as they say, ignorance of the law is no defense.

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Post by roofermel Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:03 pm

A question here- I did not sign the ss form, my parents did. How can I be held to what another performed? Thank you

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:13 pm

This is an educational thread and not a thread to teach how to get out of the system and your question is a complicated matter the system does not want to let you out of. If you go back and read the entire thread you can get a better understanding of your question and what it will take to get out. AJ

roofermel wrote:A question here- I did not sign the ss form, my parents did. How can I be held to what another performed? Thank you

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Post by openmind Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:14 pm

YES!

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:40 pm

Ok, lets do a short recap of a couple of things that was discussed above and an assignment.

First: we learned that we are Federal Personal under 5 USC 522a(a)(13) by,

Second; our voluntary addmittance in to the Socail Security Program or as some call it Old Age Benefits, but it is for us to know the law as the Supreme Court has put it over and over agian and not the government. So what law are we subjected to when one submits the SS 4 form? Its the Socail Security Act of 1935 as amemded from time to time, which we have no say, except by voting Congress men and women in and out, what a pain!

The assignment:

google the 1935 Act above and read Title VIII section 801 to it's end of that section, 801, 802, 803, ect. and come back and tell me what you learned. AJ

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Post by lynx69 Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:43 pm

Section 811 (b) 6 and Section 811 (b) 7
These seem to indicate that if the 14th amendment makes me an employee of the government, that I don't have to pay income/wages taxes. What did I miss? Are you tired of Income Tax! 761671673




AJAnderson wrote:Ok, lets do a short recap of a couple of things that was discussed above and an assignment.

First: we learned that we are Federal Personal under 5 USC 522a(a)(13) by,

Second; our voluntary addmittance in to the Socail Security Program or as some call it Old Age Benefits, but it is for us to know the law as the Supreme Court has put it over and over agian and not the government. So what law are we subjected to when one submits the SS 4 form? Its the Socail Security Act of 1935 as amemded from time to time, which we have no say, except by voting Congress men and women in and out, what a pain!

The assignment:

google the 1935 Act above and read Title VIII section 801 to it's end of that section, 801, 802, 803, ect. and come back and tell me what you learned. AJ
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