HEALTH CARE TIDBIT

Splovengates wrote:Any method of health care that has bee associated with paganism for several thousand years, and explains itself as balancing or releasing the 'energy forces of the body', should be kept at arms length until is is clearly shown to obey natural law.
(HYPNOSIS, ACUPUNCTURE, REFLEXOLOGY are some)

Please, you are joking right?!

OMG... You can't be serious.. Acccupunture... That is the main healing modality in China and is an important part of the healing process.

WE ARE electromagnetic beings and we DO interact with various earth energies whether you are aware of it or not....

I've made use of a number of these, Acupuncture, Yoga, Meditation, Tai Chi, & Aroma Therapy is heavenly. No adverse effects ever. Even took a martial arts class with my kids when younger, a slight adverse effect there, someone threw me with a little to much vigor, maybe he thought I was heavier than I was... just sore for a short time, nothing lasting...

Natural Law?

Prayer?

"How does acupuncture actually work? From the perspective of Western medicine, acupuncture works by needling (the term used to describe manipulation of the needles after insertion) the acupuncture points. This stimulates the nervous system to release chemicals in the muscles, spinal cord and brain, which either changes the experience of pain, or triggers the release of chemicals and hormones that influence the body's own internal regulating system. Acupuncture is associated with increased levels of prostaglandins, white blood cells and gamma globulins, as well as the production and distribution of enkephalins, serotonin, noradrenaline and other neurotransmitters and neuromodulators. >From the perspective of Chinese medicine, acupuncture is used to maintain a balance between the yin (negative) and yang (positive)."
http://medcomres.com/articles/faq_acupuncture_primer.htm

"The existence of the meridian system was further established by French researcher Pierre de Vernejoul, who injected radioactive isotopes into the acupoints of humans and tracked their movement with a special gamma imaging camera. The isotopes traveled thirty centimeters along acupuncture meridians within four to six minutes. Vernejoul then challenged his work by injecting isotopes into the blood vessels at random areas of the body rather than into acupoints. The isotopes did not travel in the same manner at all, further indicating that the meridians do indeed comprise a system of separate pathways within the body."
http://www.acupuncturedoc.com/scientif.htm

I had a torn radiator cuff... very painful... Lots of pills and some therapy that agrivated it so had to stop.... Four treatments of accupuncture and I was fine. REGAINED entire use of my arm, which the docs said wouldn't happen.

We have energy meridians that flow through our bodies and when they get blocked, disease results.

I hear you PGO.... Got my clock cleaned while taking martial arts with my kids... But loved it, aside from the clock cleaning incident! Tai Chi is so much easier, not hitting or bleeding for the most part lol.

If one were walking aroung in the 13th century using a flashlight at night, one would likely have been burnt for using dark arts. The ones with mechanisms that could produce at that time kept them hidden. One of the more colorful definitions of 'magic' was the misattribution of a natural force as a supernatural force due to superstition. If God created all, how can any force oppose natural law? There are unappropriate applications of God's power, but these still are regulated by overlying laws and principles.

I really appreciate this thread. Some of the craziest ideas are a chance to learn. I expect that this will become an interesting thread as it developes.

ALCHEMIST:

I really appreciate this thread. Some of the craziest ideas are a chance
to learn. I expect that this will become an interesting thread as it
developes.
_____________________________________________

I totally agree, we are coming out of the dark ages in medicine as well as all the sciences.

Science has come to realize that our heart generates an electromagnetic field that interacts with earths electromagnetic field.

The implications of this are tremendous, as the elctromagnetic field of the earth changes it impacts us... and we as individulas can collective influence the earth.

Humans can create a wave of coherence that effects the earths magnetic field... So by thinking and feeling (in our hearts), love and peace we can accomplish a great deal... Whereas fear sends a wave of chaos into the earth's magnetic field....

So do we have a choice about creating the world in which we live.

"A man is a little world.
The world is a big man."

WHEN GROWING UP , WE WENT TO GRANDMAS TO GET DOCTORED UP , PATCH UP ,

(IN THE TRUE NATURAL WAY, )

TO ME THE MODERN DAY DOCTOR IS KILLER IN A WHITE COAT....

THIS MUST BE DONE .....

TO TURN OFF THE T.V.

I HAVE FOR THREE YEARS NOW

AND

THE BLINDERS WILL COME OFF

[b]' ONE DROP OF DIGITAL INK WILL CAUSE A THOUSAND TO THINK"

HERE IS TRUE "NATURAL LAW"

[b]THE NATURAL COOPERATES WITH SUPERNATURAL
[/b]
God is supernatural. He created the natural but he also works outside of the natural.
Consider Jesus healing the sick, the day the sun stood still, the flood. the valley of the dry bones, Elijah flyin onto to heaven. There alot more the BIBLE reveals about the natural and the supernatural. READ IT.

SPLOVENGATES, What makes you think we haven't read it??

santafe wrote:SPLOVENGATES, What makes you think we haven't read it??

GREAT! BUT DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IT.
MANY HAVENT

SPLOVENGATES,

I wonder who led you to believe that acupuncture is of curious supernatural origin. I have given you a couple of links which describe its natural operation. Do you still hold the same opinion? Do you know hypnotic techniques are used in many religions, including Christian churches? That was a post I never got to.

I listened to a Church of Christ minister preach on spiritism and occult. He said that God's power worked back when it was given to the apostles, but the devil is healing people, pretending to be God to mislead them these later days. Then I heard a Pentecostal preacher talkind about the former and latter rain and God's spirit being poured out in the last days. He went on to the mark of the beast and said that those attributing God's healing power to the Devil are blashpeming the Holy spirit. I am curious your thoughts on this.

Me personally, I make no distinction between natural and supernatural, since matter is a manifestaion of supernatural power. Consider a water molecule. It should look like this:
H-O-H, but instead the H's are at a 30° (or close to that) which totally changes the way water works, making life possible. To me that is a supernatural miracle. When I walk, I ponder the mystery as I take step, considering I am supported by the manifestation of God's spoken word. When you get into quantum physics, it gets really weird.

TO ALCHEMIST,

A QUICK OVERVIEW OF WHAT I FOUND IN SOME OF THESE THINGS.

ACCUPUNCTURE:
Chinese medicine has its foundation in ASTROLOGICAL concepts, which the Creator of the universe condemns. Again a pagan practice.

HYPNOTISM:
Why would anyone let someone else take control of your mind? God doesnt even do that. God-given 'POWER OF CHOICE'.

TRUE HEALING VS FALSE HEALING:
In these last days, before the latter rain is poured out Satan will counterfeit almost everything God can do, including the Second Coming of Christ. (There are much more detailS to investigate here, but not now).

FINALLY QUANTUM PHYSICS:
God is the Creator of "Physics" and he wants His people to study the natural and scientific world because we will find the AWESOME POWER AND WISDOM of the Creator of the universe. We will continue to study this throughout the eons of eternity.

WEIRD! HUH! LOL

Thanks for the feedback Splovengates!

You are right about Quantum Physics Alchemist ... things definitely get weird, very, very weird! lol Every where I look though, even at the quantum level I see the fingerprint of God. You may but most do not know that the motive behind Einstein's drive to explore the unified theory relativity was the desire to "Discover the mind of God." His desire was to understand God through His creation. Why not, the Scriptures state that even the rocks cry out, and that all of creation groans for the revealing of the son's of God.

God can heal, and so can satan. Many mainstream denominations have a theology that does not allow for healing in this day and age, and so have no choice but to attribute all to the devil. Yet the Prophet Joel stated that in the last days God would pour out His Spirit upon all people. Paul and John clearly expected believers to perform miracles in the name of Jesus. There is tons of scripture that point to and support the concept that miracles should the the "normal" in the life of a believer.

Still we do need to be careful, satan can and does perform miracles, scripture warns he can appear as a messenger of light. We need to examine each thing and ask God if it is of Him, and then trust that He will answer. The word says that no good father would give a stone if his child asked for a piece of bread. How much more so the Father of all? Some things I do not have a problem with, reflexology, acupuncture ... if it works for you, great. Other things like hypnotism, TM, etc. I do, as they appear to be avenues for creatures you do not want to know to gain access.

Oh by the way, my daughter was well on her way to achieving her black belt in karate when she hurt her back in HS. I had no problem with her doing it. Her instructors did not get into the mystical part of it at all, it was good exercise, and it's good to know your daughter can look after herself when she goes off to college.

OK, well if acupuncture has astrological foundations, I would shy away from that as well.

KEVIND53

THANKS FOR THE INPUT ON THIS SUBJECT

Several years ago my husband hurt his shoulder. After trying the traditional medical therapies, the pain was still so bad he had to sleep sitting up. Finally, he was so desperate that he decided to try acupuncture. Within a few weeks all pain was gone. BTW, we are both Christians, so we are not into hocus-pocus. We are, however, fond of whatever works!

If it ain't illegal or immoral to you, Works for me

SATANS POWER VS THE CREATOR'S POWER.

Remember the story of the conflict between Moses and the Pharaoh of Egypt,
The Pharaoh called his 'wise men, sorcerers, magicians and tired to duplicate Aarons rod, which became a snake. Aarons rod turned into a real snake and swallowed the Pharaohs 'snake' which was not alive.

pouncer7 wrote:Several years ago my husband hurt his shoulder. After trying the traditional medical therapies, the pain was still so bad he had to sleep sitting up. Finally, he was so desperate that he decided to try acupuncture. Within a few weeks all pain was gone. BTW, we are both Christians, so we are not into hocus-pocus. We are, however, fond of whatever works!

AGAIN, THIS THING IS REALLY A MATTER OF TRUSTING IN GOD'S POWER VS MANS POWER.

God can heal in a moment, whereas, i might take several days, months or even years to heal someone using man feeble methods.

Anyway, today, I think God's hands are tied, to a certain extent, because of all this " hocus-pocus" and so-called alternative medicine.
An God uses people to do most of His bidding..

...but there is a miracle working God, doing wonderous things to perform for His people

.It is said that All good comes from God...Saying that aren't means of helping good? At one time ALL medicine was seen as of the non good. God also takes the bad (sometimes) and uses it for good. Is that not true? With that who ALLOWED doctors to learn? At one time it was just plain wrong to cut into a body... Basically the point is about God taking the "bad" and it becoming good. Food for thought. Please correct me if needed or add thanks for the post...rick152

Last thing I have to say, is to let the Bible, God's Word speak.


Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

BE NOT WISE IN YOUR OWN EYES: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. PROVERBS 3/5

and...Proverbs 16/25—There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I personally have no issues with hypnotism. I have studied it. As with anything, its application is the issue. Acupuncture has a physiologic/energetic basis, links above, no problem with that, nor any with reflexology or massage therapy. There are many references to the heavens in the Bible. Christian astrology? I am glad that we can respect each other enough to share what makes us different. And likewise, not to try to push our ideas on each other. I am only sharing my perspective. I have quite an interesting background which has given me a great perspective, I think. I really wasn't going to add to this thread again, but I think it fair to add what I have added. In closing, I got tired of religous dogma, started thinking for myself and following my heart out of love not fear. Cheers!

Christians are not to put their trust in the stars, moon, sun, whatever. Or worship those things. (Dont for forget the wisemen from the east (China?)

Perfect love cast out fear. And God has not give us a spirit of fear, but of a sound mind.

Im not crazy. Its those others who are.

ALCHEMIST
And I think you and I are the only ones not crazy, and Im not too sure about you. lol

I put my trust in God, agreed about putting trust in the creation and not The Creator. Even so, we find folks putting trust in things like Dinar. Remember the story about the Magi who traveled from afar following a star? They were not worshiping that star, but God was declaring his glory in the heavens. I have always made it clear, that I refrain from future telling oracles, even using the scriptures in this way. When God fulfills his word, then the meaning is manifested. Too many, in my opinion try to interpret prophicies and then make doctrines about.

Lol - they say there's a fine line between gifted and crazy!

Splovengates wrote:Christians are not to put their trust in the stars, moon, sun, whatever. Or worship those things. (Dont for forget the wisemen from the east (China?)

Perfect love cast out fear. And God has not give us a spirit of fear, but of a sound mind.

Im not crazy. Its those others who are.

ALCHEMIST
And I think you and I are the only ones not crazy, and Im not too sure about you. lol

ALCHEMIST; "Too many, in my opinion try to interpret prophicies and then make doctrines about."

DONT EVEN GO THERE. THATS WHY WE HAVE ALOT OF PROBLEMS OF PREDICTING THE END OF THE WORLD.

I JUST WANT THIS DINAR RV TO END,—ON THE GOOD FOOT
PEACE

Splovengates,

Good advice, thanks!

Splovengates wrote:ALCHEMIST; "Too many, in my opinion try to interpret prophicies and then make doctrines about."

DONT EVEN GO THERE. THATS WHY WE HAVE ALOT OF PROBLEMS OF PREDICTING THE END OF THE WORLD.

I JUST WANT THIS DINAR RV TO END,—ON THE GOOD FOOT
PEACE

I am reminded tonight of Acts 15:28-29: "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

My comments are directed to Splovengates - Mileage Junkie after reading some of what was written. If you want to disagree, you are certainly welcome to do that, but I would invite you to please hear me out and consider what my experiences have been.

Well, I have to say that fear of things that are unknown can make someone form strong opinions that aren't relevant, well grounded in scientific methodology and sometimes just plain wrong! I am a born again Christian and have been in the alternative healing field for about 30 years now. I retired from the USAF in 1994 as a Lt. Colonel after 20 years of active duty service to my country. During much of that time I was a Master's Degree level professional psychologist and frequently utilized many relaxation methods to assist my patient/clients to heal and work through their challenges. Some of the methods I was trained in included, medical/clinical hypnotherapy, aromatherapy, meditation, guided imagery and yoga. After retiring from the USAF, I went on to take many classes in other modalities including meridian therapy, acupressure/acupuncture/electro-acupuncture, pranic healing (taught at a famous Catholic Shrine near St. Louis, Missouri), kinesiology, and I also trained for fitness with a Shotokan Karate Dojo (Pretty sure there wasn't anything Satanic or evil about that either!).

As a Christian, I pray for and with my clients and I have seen remarkable and lasting results. Often, the results I see are after the main-stream allopathic medical specialists have failed to help or heal my patient/clients. I quit working as a counselor back in the 1990's and got a Massage Therapy License (in 4 states!), and advanced training in an osteopathic medical technique called CranioSacral Therapy. I have seen people heal through illnesses and injuries that the so-called "experts" said were virtually untreatable.

Perhaps there were pagan people who used some of these alternative techniques too, but that doesn't mean the techniques themselves are Satanic!! That is just a bit extreme don't you think? I mean, think about it, these "Pagans" you seem to fear or lump into a category of "evil" are humans breathing the same air you are breathing, and that doesn't somehow make the air "evil" does it?

In referencing Hypnotherapy, I would like to comment that the person experiencing hypnosis is ALWAYS AWARE AND IN CONTROL and NEVER GIVES UP FREE WILL OR FREE CHOICE during the process, contrary to what the stage hypnotists and the movies would lead you to believe! We ALL experience hypnosis in varying degrees EVERYDAY of our lives. The mind responds to "images" regardless of the source, whether it is events in the physical world around us, remembering an event we experienced in the past, watching a TV program or movie, reading a book, etc. If you have ever watched a movie and caught yourself responding to something happening in the movie such as leaning in the theater seat or gripping the armrests during a car chase scene, then you should realize that this too is hypnosis because you mind reacts to ALL images as if they are real, regardless of the source!

Aromatherapy uses the distilled concentrated essences of many healing plants, roots, flowers, leaves or woods to create essential oils that have amazing natural healing properties. They are the refined essence of the heavenly life force of the plant that God instilled into them. When used for healing purposes, even the smells as well as the application of these essential oils can have powerful and lasting results to resolve illness, pain (physical and emotional), congestion, fatigue, over-stimulation and many other conditions. Some of the essential oils are used as an alternative to man-made pharmaceutical drugs in some European countries and considered to be a healthier and more effective choice. After all, the phamaceutical manufacturers have simply tried to create in a lab, a chemical mixture mimicing a natural substance found in nature which they can't patent and make a huge profit off of. An example of a truly remarkable essential oil is common Lavender Essential Oil. It is one of the best products for healing burns and has even been shown to help 3rd Degree burn victims regenerate tissue without needing skin grafts in some cases! It is well known to be helpful for its calming and relaxing effects and is useful for helping to rid yourself of a skin rash or irritations. It has literally dozens of uses and even most recently, it has been found to help get rid of bedbugs too!

If you have ever used a product like Icy Hot, or Vicks VapoRub, or Metholatum, or even Ben-Gay, then you were using Aroma Therapy. Did you feel like you were in some sort of spiritual warfare when you used those simple products? Of course you didn't, because they were packaged in beautiful bottles and tubes with labels and TV advertising so that you would feel comfortable buying those products! My point is that it is easy to polarize your opinions about things you haven't studied and assume they are based on evil, pagan or Satanic things, when in fact, God provided these amazing gifts for our uses and healing.

I encourage you to step back from that hard line and opinion and become better informed of Both sides to this subject instead of only quoting what other people are spouting off negatively that supports your initial belief/statement. I can assure you that after all of these years of being a practitioner of alternative health modalities with people of many faiths, there can't be many of my patients/clients that would describe their experience as "Pagan" or "Satanic". Many have stated that it reinforced their belief in God and God's healing powers, and most know me to be a Christian of strong belief and faith. God Bless you and God Bless the USA as well as all the people of our planet!

GO RV!!!!

@HAWKEYE—
I want to agree with you as much as I can. I have no fear of the unknown. I did before i became a born-again Christian in 1976. I had a fear of the future. I wanted to know what it was going to be like out there-the who, what, why, how, when and where. I was searching for truth, I was hungry for the truth. God reached out to me and told me to study His Word. So now, after 35 years, Im still studing God's word. and He has reveal many things to me about this life as well as the next. I now have no fear for the future. As Yogi Berra says: THE FUTURE AINT WHAT IT USED TO BE.

Im also and Air Force veteran-63-67

I have also studied many issues about true & false education, medical science issues, paganism, false religions, cultures, and traditions, history, etc
So I have to weigh everything against what the Bible says.
GODS RULE–Isa 8/20 "... if they speak not according to God's Word, the Bible, there is no light or truth in them.

With God, I believe there is no grey area. Its either black or white. You are either for Him or against Him. No man can serve two masters, and so on...

So I say stay strong in the faith. Jesus is soon to return to earth and we must be ready at all times if we want eternal life. We are living in the "time of the end" and all kinds of strange things will be happening that we do not now have a clue, because they have never happened before.

Like this strange RV thing. If God wants me to benefit from it—so be it. He knows I will try my best to continue to warn people of the coming crisis on the earth, and tell the people to get ready.

GO RV!! AMEN??
AMEN

Hi Splovengates, Great answer and I appreciate your comments. You obviously have given a lot of thought to what you are thinking. I agree on most of your reasons for your belief and admire that you have taken the time to study scripture to better understand God's plan and you humble yourself before him as a good and faithful servant. By the way, thank you for your service and I salute you as a fellow USAF Veteran!

Amen Brother!

and Go RVeeeeee!

BACK AT'CHA
I TO SALUTE YOU TOO FOR YOUR HONORABLE SERVICE TO THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. (so far) (:

Splovengates,

I am curious, if you had a child around, would you allow them to read Harry Potter books?

humingbyrd wrote:Splovengates,

I am curious, if you had a child around, would you allow them to read Harry Potter books?

"HECK NO!"


Actually, I believe God inspires people to do things, so does Satan.
Barry Manilow wrote a hit song, which he said words came to him in in 10 minutes. If you read the words of this songs, you know who inspired him.
If you know your Bible.

Harry Potter - I remember one Christian network speaking against this, then years later, after the same show no longer complaining, Harry Potter is on the same channel, a family channel.

humingbyrd wrote:Splovengates,

I am curious, if you had a child around, would you allow them to read Harry Potter books?

Actually, I believe God inspires people to do things, so does Satan.
Barry Manilow wrote a hit song, which he said words came to him in in 10 minutes. If you read the words of this songs, you know who inspired him.
If you know your Bible.[/quote]

THAT SONG?
I WRITE THE SONGS

Splovengates,

I am not sure which scares me more, you or Jihadist?!

humingbyrd wrote:Splovengates,

I am not sure which scares me more, you or Jihadist?!

SO WHATS YOUR STORY?

humingbyrd wrote:Splovengates,

I am not sure which scares me more, you or Jihadist?!

Hey now! We all belive differently. I have similar, but different beliefs from Splovengates, but we respect each other. That is a sign of maturity. We each need to be responsible to what God has given each of us. Wouldn't it be boring if we were exactly the same? Be like agent Smith taking over the matrix?

Splovengates wrote:

Alchemist wrote:Harry Potter - I remember one Christian network speaking against this, then years later, after the same show no longer complaining, Harry Potter is on the same channel, a family channel.

I dont think many dont really understand what and who they are dealing with. I think the "Harry Potter" phenomena is into magic, the occult, spiritualism and other dumb stuff. I wouldnt want my kids to read and watch that crappolla

Very true ... the Channel I believe would be the Family Channel -- it used to be owned by CBN a Christian broadcaster, but was sold. I believe it is now owned by CBS.

Dear Splovengates,

I have to vehemently disagree with you! When you look at many of these modalities/treatments they have done more to heal or cure than our traditional allopathic medicine (drug based). I know this because I have successfully used many of these modalities for years. You may ask who I am and what are my credentials. Well, first I am a Christian and I am Naturopathic Medical Doctor. I went to medical school just like any other doctor. I am fully Board Certified and Licensed. I have been practcing medicine for over 9 years. I have studied and practiced many of these modalities successfully treating and, yes, have cured possibly thousands of people.

I also believe that God has blessed me with a gift of understanding and knowing how to heal people. Many times, He sends patients my way that are so sick their allopathic doctors don't know what to do for them anymore. These people are on the verge of giving up hope and are in dire need of cures. I help them through simply applying my in depth knowledge and experience of physiology and biochemistry of the human body. Please understand that we are millions and millions of chemical reactions going on simultaneously. If you remember from chemistry class at a basic level these reactions either make energy or use energy. Yes, you are an amazingly complex human being that is based on energy. I also ask, how do you think that energy "moves" through you body? Well, there are several ways to explain this and therefore several of the modalities you mentioned. The bottomline is that they address the energy balances and imbalances in our body.

For example, acupuncture is a system of medicine that is based on the "movement of energy through meridans in your body". This has been and will continue to the major form of medicine in Asian countries. Do you think that a system of medicine that has been actively practiced for thousands of years--doesn't work?? Seriously, you are misinformed!

I could go on to explain how many of these other modalities work, but at this point I think you get what I'm trying to explain. If you need further proof of the effectiveness of many of these treatment modalities, please go to some of the major peer review journals where research is published and get your information. Medline, Alternative Medicine Reviews or PubMed will give you worldwide published results in many of these areas.

Obviously, I am passionate about the work that I do. It is the uninformed masses who make what I do as a Naturopathic Medical Doctor very difficult. I have struggled with my practice for years, because people like you have started rumors about me personally, how I interact with people (pray with them and for them) and what treatments I use to help them. I think that many people need to take a step back and remember not to judge other people. I have continually been surprised by how many people make comments about things that have not taken the time to educate themselves nor have tried to understand from a different or Godly point of view. Would you believe that these people who started these rumors claimed to be Christians!

So, I ask you to dig a bit deeper, pray and educate yourself a bit more. I pray for you right now that your understanding be expanded and that you don't lose your health--because then you may very much need the help of someone like myself. Why do I say this, because I have been where you are--you see I was in the allopathic world when my Da was diagnosed with terminal cancer. He passed 7 weeks after his diagnosis. He didn't need to die--If the the simplest and routine things that were supposed to be done, had been done years before. He would have been around to walk me down the aisle, see his grandsons birth and been able to enjoy his retirement. I am NMD because of him! I dedicate my practice to Him (God) and my Dad.

Blessings,

Dr. K

WOW! my brother, you pulled out your big guns on me. And thats OK.
My issue is that of a spiritual connection between God and man. All these modalities of medical treatment, usually have some off the wall spiritual connotation connected with it. I still maintain is not God's method of healing. God uses His simple means to heal people. Water, proper diet, fresh air, sunshine, exercise, rest, cleaniness, and relying on God.

Thats my "beef"

I have a P.H. D. too, Its in my tool shed.