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 Again in black and white... LOP

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andy1979uk
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PostSubject: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:11 pm

Dinar Redenomination To Cost Iraq Billions


Posted on 11 September 2012. Tags: Investment

The process of scrapping old dinars and deleting zeros from Iraq’s currency to replace it with more manageable numbers could cost the country billions, according to Ahmed Faizullah, the deputy chairman of the Parliamentary Finance Committee.


Redenominating is up to Iraq’s central bank, but it would cause chaos for government by redenominating after it has set an annual budget in the existing denomination. That’s why no redenomination will take place in 2013 and maybe 2014 as well.


Removing zeroes makes it easier print money, read it and add it up, and reduces the need to cart around too many notes to pay for goods and services in a country that relies almost wholly on cash. Iraq puts just 1% of all its transactions on credit card.


Although cutting zeros adds to costs and confusion, Faizullah says: “It is basically the process of currency switching and common people will take some time to get used to it. That is all.”


As Fabil Nabi, Iraq’s deputy finance minister, helpfully confirmed for some confused, amateur currency investors, “eliminating zeros from Iraq’s currency will not increase the value of Iraqi dinars.”
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:16 pm

Man just on and on with these on again off again articles   Smiley
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:22 pm

 WE won't know how this all shakes out til it is finally done.  I just want something to happen.  I am so emotionally drained from all this.

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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:52 pm

it will not lop but it will not rv. it will not rv until sometime in the first  quarter of 2014. shabs and many  others over the years  have always stated the first quarter is the best time to do it
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:53 pm

The problem is ponee as investors in this... Myself included.. We try to read between the lines... Instead of what it is actually saying.... Right there in black and white... And apologies clay but I'm just putting it out there... The facts.... The reality of whats expected to be a 100000000000000% or what ever it is profit from this investment that everyone is pinning their hopes on... Sorry to be the party pooper but .... Come on its there in black and white and our minds are trying to read between it... Change it to the dream... This just doesn't happen... Cash is a game one minute it buys you something the next it's manipulated to so it doesn't get you as much...it's an illusion run by the same cartel... Whatever game your playing your always chasing the carrot... Your not meant to have it... Because its all by design... The USA invaded iraq (amongst others) do you now think they want to pay off your national debt? It just isn't realistic... Imagine the slaves in iraq ( who know the game better than anyone else) imagine them being manipulated into losing their 000 currency to be rewarded for slavery with lower denoms whilst we profit? Come on... Lets all wake up and read the news for what it actually is! Like i said I don't expect anything from this other than my investment back. Anything else is a bonus... As Kevin said... You can't fix stupidness or poverty... But you might be able to help with poverty... Or something along those lines... But it's worth holding some just incase! Just incase this is what the poses that be want! Nothing more... If it sounds too good to.be true it probably is... Lets not pin our lives on this lottery... Because that's what it is...
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:55 pm

It will not lop but won't rv? Shabby had an agenda.. To build a reserve... And couldn't do it with oil...
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:03 pm

andy   you might be right nd you might be wrong. i am betting you are wrong because there are many heavy hitters invested who are in the know and they would not waste there money unless there was a return , will it be  high no but even at a quarter times millions you made big money at that i am off the ride
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:03 pm

I just read this also
In Depth Explanation about Iraq's Currency Redenomination and Exchangeability ...
bumped older article.. great explanation ~

Iraqi Currency Redenomination and Exchangeability

There have been a tremendous number of inquiries about the recent news that Iraq will be increasing the value of their currency and, at the same time, introduce new denominations into the Iraqi economy sometime in 2010 (currently planned).

Specifically, it has been reported that the Iraq Finance Minister issued a statement saying they have prepared a plan to increase the value of the dinar against the dollar and will introduce 25, 10, 5, 1, 1/2, ¼, and smaller (possibly 1/10 or 1/20) dinar banknotes and/or coins.

He said that successful fiscal policies pursued in Iraq have contributed to increasing the value of the Iraqi dinar against the dollar, noting that the U.S. Dollar dropped significantly in value during the current year.

Of note, he also said in a press statement that the bank has been following with great interest the phenomenon of low demand for the U.S. Dollar in the local Iraqi currency exchange markets. Mudhhir Muhammad Salih, a member of a Central Bank advisory panel, said by the end of 2010, new banknotes will be fully introduced while the current banknotes will be gradually removed from circulation. He did not specify when the new banknotes would be issued.

Both (current and new) denominations will be legal tender in Iraq until the current banknotes are completely withdrawn over a period of time. Economic analyst Hilal al-Tahhan was quoted as saying “the bank's move is overdue.”

He said he expects the currency change to go smoothly because of the decision to allow both the current and new banknotes to coexist during an extended exchange period, leading to less turbulence in the economy. What does all this mean? Overall, this news appears to be very positive and possibly points to some significant changes in the value of the Iraqi Dinar.

It has long been the opinion of many Iraqi Dinar investors that the Iraqi Government must introduce new lower denominations into their economy before the value of their currency increases. If the value (buying power) of the dinar increases significantly or rapidly, the largerdenominations currently in circulation would be impractical for use during everyday transactions in the Iraqi economy.

If the Iraqi Dinar increased in value to 10 cents (.1 USD), the smallest banknote in Iraqi would have a value of $5 USD. There would no practical way to purchase everyday items inthe economy and no way to make change---the currency would be impractical and unusable. If a soda in Iraq has a value of 50 cents now, it will still have a value of 50 cents if the value of the dinar increases---there has to be a denomination in the Iraq economy to pay for it.

The current problem is that Iraq doesn’t have any currency in circulation to pay for normal day-to-day products if the dinar rises significantly in value---Iraq must have smaller denominations moving forward.

Also from the recent news, it appears as though all denominations (current and soon to be issued) will be in circulation at the same time and no immediate exchange will be necessary. Hopefully, theIraqi Dinar will be on the world exchange market soon to allow for even easier exchange in the near future.

Expectations are that Iraq is moving as fast as they can to rebuild their economy and wealth, and join the international economic community. There have also been rumors about the future exchangeable value of some current Iraqi banknote denominations, and limited time periods for exchange of current Iraqi banknotes.

It has been falsely rumored that perhaps the 25,000 dinar banknote will be exchanged at a different exchange rate than current smaller Iraqi banknotes. Another false rumor suggests there will be a very short period (days or weeks) of exchange for the current Iraqi banknotes after a significant change of value and introduction of lower denominations.

Well, to address these rumors, let’s look at currency from a basic level: Countries issue their own currency. They issue their currency with a responsibility to honor it and redeem it. The currency must be accounted for.

When a country issues currency (the US as an example), they borrow against the currency and issue debt to support it. The US recently printed a significant amount of currency in order to finance stimulus funding.

In order to do this, the US government had to borrow the money with an obligation to pay it back. One of the main functions of the US Treasury Department is to manage the U.S. national debt (the amount of money which the federal government owes to its creditors).

China owns much of our debt as do US citizens and other countries---we must honor our issued currency and our debt. If a country doesn’t honor its debt, creditors (other countries and investors) lose faith in the defaulting country and a country will end up in financial ruins.

Iraq, as a responsible member of the world economic community with a goal of getting their currency online with the rest of the world currencies, has issued currency with an obligation to honor it----all of it---not just certain denominations. Throughout modern history, I can't think of one instance where a country honored some denominations , but not others---it doesn't make sense---people and other countries would lose faith in that country's responsibility to respect their debt and honor their issued currency---who would trade with them, exchange with them, or conduct business with them?

To limit the time period for currency exchange in order to force the de-valuation of currency in circulation in order to reduce debt doesn't happen and wouldn't be tolerated by the world financial community. Countries have to be accountable for all of their currency and they can't play games with exchange timelines to try and prevent people for exchanging.

Remember, in addition to individual investors, large governments and banks outside of Iraq hold Iraqi currency. Money from all over the world has flowed into Iraq through the purchase ofIraqi Dinar . The Iraqi Government will honor that investment in their economy, or there will never be faith in their economy and they will never be accepted by the world financial community.
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:13 pm

In short with a lop they are still meeting their obligations currency wise... An investors money is still worth what it was before and and after a redenomination... The important pert in this is about the debt and meeting those obligations... Iraq has none... The slate is clean to start with... With a lot of wealth in the ground to borrow against... Why give it to you and me?
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:15 pm

We've been supporting them for 10 years, got a bunch of our men and women killed and wounded..  No big RV, ok, big nuke.
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:27 pm

catman i am going to be blunt and do not want to offend anyone but  all the crap we read  good and bad  is pure rubbish. the people who really know will never say and the people in  not the know run there mouth of rubbish. so it will happen when they feel ready to and there is nothing we can do to change it but sit back and wait and wait and wait.in closing i do not believe anyone
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:45 am

Excellent Andy!! .. I agree will I hate to say it...simply put ... In a redenominate or remove the zeros. When that happens the value of their currency will be raised, but only because their currency will be replaced by a more valuable currency. The IQD that investors hold will not increase in value in a redenomination. It will be exchanged for the new currency at a ratio of 1000 old for 1 new dinar. There have been times when statements coming out of Iraq have used the word "revalue" but if you'll read the context you'll see that they're describing the process of redenomination, not revaluation. Revaluation is a simple adjustment to the exchange rate. It requires no new currency printing and no education process for the public. Redenomination requires approval from parliament to print new currency. The exchange rate will go from 1166:1 to 1.16:1 and the value will go from $.00086 to $.86. The old currency will eventually be demonetized (declared worthless) and nobody will make any money off of the process. Basically, 1 dinar will equal roughly 1 dollar..(revenue neutral, restructure, lop or no exchange rate change)
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:50 am

 Lopster -- I see a great friendship starting between you and Andy lol... So glad you have someone to play with in the sandbox.

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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:51 am

I had these notes or facts archived.. - Iraq is a third world country. It has a GDP of ~ $120 billion. It has a per capita income of ~ $4,200. It produces ~ 3.1 mbd of oil. Oil export is more than 90% its GDP. It's total banking system is less than $100 billion. The ISX trades ~ $35 million on a good day. The total market cap is not more than a few billion. In fact not a single ME country or OPEC member has a GDP of a trillion dollars. The question is how much of Iraq's GDP is flowing out of country. It is estimated that one sixth of Iraq's GDP is being creamed off in dollars and flowing out of the country which is why they have a official CBI dinar rate of 1168 and a market rate of ~1300.
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:06 am

Lol, Ponee.. I wish Andy and i could play in sand box talking more about RV :( Really, it's all BS and not worth stressing over. Could be a long time for any change.. IMO, the Middle East with be thrown to the side in a few years, maybe 10-15 years as a guess - There are other methods of energy kicking tailend in the way of development. While I still own a little dinar in hopes, it is not looking too pretty to me. I have a mini library of "lop" articles over the years I have and I still insanely hang on for some reason. I'm just happy to see someone like Andy to come along with views like mine. Unless you are 100% RV is it hard to fit in all the other dinar forums without getting rocks thrown at you. Kudos Andy.. You are rare my friend. Happy Saturday to all Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:20 am

Before I bolt out of here, here's one of those stinger articles from march last year.............Central: Iraq mass of large cash deals, but weak

14/03/2012

Said that the deletion of zeros will not affect trading.

BAGHDAD - Haidar al-Rubaie Filaih

Economic expert said that the economic and financial conditions and volatile inflation pressure on Iraq, which has been previously generated negative effect on the regularity of the commercial market and the labor markets and production and the level of living of citizens.

Indicating that these conditions combined led to many distortions in the structures and economic relations among which was the presence of many zeros monetary mass of little value and in a manner not commensurate with the future developments in the present and the future of the national economy.

Iraq has suffered from a mass of cash tremendous over 30 trillion Iraqi dinars, for more than four trillion paper money, the longer it as a disruption of a large negative impact on monetary policy, according to many stakeholders who have supported in the light of this process to delete the zeros initiated by the Central Bank of study since the Not so.

He announced the Central last month that early next year will put the new currency that will be deleted, including three zeros, indicating in a statement to the administrator when the move was aimed at reviving the financial policy in the country side, and to equality dinar to the dollar on the other, as well as good economic other of Elimination on inflation.

According to Deputy Governor of the Central Bank of Iraq appearance of Dr. Mohammed Saleh: The circulation of four trillion paper money is the product of a long period of inflation and economic decline, rising, for example, the index of consumer prices foundation 1993 year from 100 to 200,000 in the middle of 2003, which means that the item which was sold for 100 dinars became sold for 200,000 thousand dinars ... And so on. It is noteworthy that the benefit under such circumstances and the deterioration of the value of the coin currency rose most of the 25 dinars to 25000 dinars, which means that inflation is added, these zeros.

And knows the benefit of inflation mean that the money prices of goods and services (ie, how much money we need to swap it for a specific package of goods and services .. The more increase the amount of money allocated to the swap on the package itself means that there is inflation or a rise in the price of money).

Cons of the money supply large

The resulting inflation continued to rise no currency in circulation of 23 billion dinars in 1991 to about (30) trillion dinars at the present time, high top class currency of 25 dinars to 25000 dinars over time, and the light that indicates the benefit that inflation fee in accordance with of that data figures for the new currency traded by adding three zeros, increasing the amount of cash operations and arranged for the nominal cost of producing large quantities of them accompanied by storage, and distribution operations of the promise and the counting and auditing standards and escort them to double, helped to increase the operational risks associated.

In the opinion of the deputy governor of the central bank said in light of price stability and optimism in Iraq's future development, it became necessary radical reform the system of management of the currency by re-structure commensurate with the structure of prices, the new different and stable levels of wages and salaries, which differed significantly from the last thirty years.

And could result in action (deletion of zeros) to increase the value of Iraqi dinar, without affecting the rate of exchange, especially as the largest category of cash Iraq now is not worth only $ 21, according to Saleh, who said in this regard: that Iraq is dealing now block large cash but is weak in its components so that the currency has become the largest category of Atsawi only $ 21 U.S. for the time being. Therefore, the high gross domestic product of Iraq of $ 140 billion at year-end 2010 to more than $ 300 billion at the end of 2015, will increase the money supply exported from the 30 trillion dinars to about 70 trillion dinars, adding that the installation weak in the structure of the currency took the added cost is called the cost of cash transactions in terms of trading between individuals and by individuals, banks and the banking system.

Indicates the benefit to Sweden (for example), where there is currently one of the best systems of cash payments in the world, however, the cost of trading cash counting and sorting, transport and storage of the coin cost the national economy, there is a rate of 4 percent of gross domestic product of Sweden , and on this basis gives the deputy governor of the Central Bank, for example in regards to Iraq, who said he shall be managed so amounts of cash tremendous weak structure, which means that the country will add the cost of cash transactions may have up to 8 percent or more of the gross domestic product, a burden that confirmed the benefit that the individual will bear in his dealings, and this reduced the opinion of the Deputy Governor of the Central Bank of the efficiency of the exchange as a social institution support to institutions of various economic, including the market and the proof is that cash transactions large limited to payment in U.S. dollars, which means bringing currency other country in the circulation for the award of cash transactions because of decline in the efficiency of the money supply and installation of the current.

The value of the new currency

She was born the process of deleting the zeros in many people's fears about whether the delete operation will reduce the total value of the earned or Ictenze citizens of money, or may affect the value of financial transactions large or in the contracts, buying and selling real estate, cars, and this is denied by fully Deputy Central Bank Governor when he said that turning 30 trillion dinars to 30 billion will not arrange any changes or shift of income or monetary wealth of the people, the natural and the moral as well as the lack of impact on the contracts and commitments between natural persons and legal entities all, as long as the amount of new money the younger set cover in exchange package of goods in the same old money with the number bigger.

Shows the benefit that the replacement of the Iraqi currency of current and deleted three zeros which demonstrates the fruit of economic stability and success of the policies of the central bank to maintain stability and of stability of the Iraqi dinar exchange rate and lower inflation to the level of one decimal place and build reserves of foreign support of the Iraqi dinar at levels not previously achieved during the last thirty years which is the cover of the Iraqi currency.

http://translate.google.com/translat...x%3FID%3D23497
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:45 am

What will we translate this into? Other than the obvious?
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:47 am

Thanks guys for all that you are sharing ! I love having  different perspectives and thoughts on what is going on in dinarland and the investment. 

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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:48 am


8-10-2013  Newshound Guru Tlar   Pre RV 1166 = .00086    Post RV 1.16 = .86.   1.16 is what supposedly what the 2014 - 2016 budgets are based on according to news reports.  If you move a decimal point 3 positions to the left, 1166 becomes 1.16. This is a game changer folks! This means the nominal value!  Every time they have been mentioning "delete the zeroes", they have been meaning the "leading zeroes" from the nominal rate which turns .00086 to .86!!!! We are close to the end of Eid Al-Fitr.  A time when Muslim governments like to gift their people.   [post 2 of 2]
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:51 am

I agree with tlar except for one important factor rd not rv.... 25000 note worth 25 new note
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:52 am

Quite possible

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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:55 am

I ve been trying to find some info on international law concerning the required period of time to give notice before an rd... I read somewhere it is six months... If this is true then six months from today would take us past the start of the next financial year... Which is Jan the 1st?... So whether or not thus isvrelevant I'm not sure...
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:03 am

Why give usa 4 trillion? Why pay us? Why give it away? They certainly don't have to.... The only thing that swings me as I ve previously said is if it's being manipulated behind the scenes... And all this lop talk.... Cos that's what it is ... As clear as glass...is asmoke screen for the powers that be that are manipulating behind the scenes... Potentially... TThat's the only reason I invested.... Kevin's point about artificial lows and no inflation is right but is it relevant? They are where they are.... For it not to lop would be a miracle. That's what has only ever happened ever in history.... For those that think they are owed by them..... You are still owed by the likes of Germany from 2221944 they also inflated and lopped... Read about Weimar
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:21 am

Lop or best hope float....
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:42 am

Andy just sell your Dinar since you got this all figured out. I mean clearly they tell the truth all the time in articles in Iraq. Not! They lie all the time in those papers Andy so I wait til its over until then I don't believe anything you or anyone else has to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:45 am

We hear from the peanut gallery ! lol !  Welcome guest NC!  Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:47 am

Thanks for joining the conversation Guest NC !!! 

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PostSubject: Re: Again in black and white... LOP    Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:08 am

Our zero's we hold are inflationary zero's. inflation was 60% + then.. Whole different ball game. Inflation is intact and controlled.. Why change in large amounts? Do they have to?.. Has currency ever revalued 115,000% overnight before or better to 3.47 rate overnight?.. an increase of roughly 300,000%?
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