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 SCOOTER ANSWERS QUESTIONS ON THE BONDLADY'S SITE !!

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Just Da Truth
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PostSubject: SCOOTER ANSWERS QUESTIONS ON THE BONDLADY'S SITE !!   Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:23 am

[Scooter-EG] ok
[oogie] Scooter-EG so you settled and ready for a few questions?
[Scooter-EG] Hey did anybody see this one
[Scooter-EG]
http://www.iraq-lg-law.o ··· ode/2234
[oogie] Scooter-EG it's in Arabic
[Scooter-EG] Law of conservation of hydrocarbon wealth No. 84 for the year of 1985
[Scooter-EG] Yes
[Scooter-EG] I know3
[Scooter-EG] but that's what translators are for
[Scooter-EG] it was last updated on June 15
[Scooter-EG] They did it carefully again
[oogie] Scooter-EG well that is interesting!
[Scooter-EG] scanned all the arabic
[Scooter-EG] I hate it when they do that
[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] I thought that one was very interesting because of the title
[Scooter-EG] Law of conservation of hydrocarbon wealth No. (84) for the year 1985
[Scooter-EG] hmmmmmm
[oogie] care to expound?
[Scooter-EG] Either way that's a good sign
[Scooter-EG] I wish I could but the doc is in Arabic
[DogzNova] 1985 was a long time ago
[Scooter-EG] I'll have it disected later tonight
[oogie] ok
[Scooter-EG] it's the June 15th 2012 date
[Scooter-EG] that'
[Scooter-EG] that's particularly eye catching
Scooter-EG] that's the last updated date from the law library
[Scooter-EG] nevertheless
[Scooter-EG] let's get this party started
[oogie] ok Scooter-EG
[Scooter-EG] first let me apologize for the lateness
[oogie] got a few tough ones
[Scooter-EG] due to technical difficulties on my side
[Scooter-EG] There's also a tone of
[Scooter-EG] recent decisions of the council of ministers meeting
[Scooter-EG] Looks like approximately
[Scooter-EG] 8 - 10 recent ones
[Scooter-EG] all posted on June 15th
[Scooter-EG] Well that should keep me up all night
[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] question time
[oogie] ready??
[Scooter-EG] We all know the rules
[Scooter-EG] If i don't know
[oogie] yes

[oogie]
http://www.bondladyscorner.com/t46309-jd-published-parameters-of-the-new-iraqi-currency-after-deletion-of-zeros From Bondlady: Since this article says there will be a 200 iqd note, and since there was not a 20,000 iqd note, does that dispell any more crap about a lop?
[Scooter-EG] hmmmm
[Scooter-EG] let me review

[Scooter-EG] Central bank decided to adopt some of the features and pictures to be developed on the new currency after deletion of zeros .. And obtained by / JD / a copy of the book's central bank, which included the historical and cultural landmarks and images to be placed on the implications of the currency close to the mentality of the Iraqi public and culture .. According to the authors included a paper currency a number of monuments and pictures the most important, put a picture to bridge the imams and the magnitude of the significance of high-value if it reaches the bridge between both sides of the River Tigris and the terminal Mrakadi Imams Musa al-Kazim (AS) and Abu Hanifa (ra) .. He said a book entitled the bank to the Directorate General for the issuance and cabinets: This is dedicated to the highest class of the new currency a category (200) two hundred dinars and the dinars on the back of this paper and put a picture of the Baghdad school .. He said the central bank: put on the face of the category (100) dinar
[Scooter-EG] while placed on the back of the paper image (ziggurat), one of the features of construction Iraq at the dawn of history .. According to the book's central bank: put on the face of the paper of class (50) JD (fifty dinars) image of the King Codaa one of the most kings of the dynasty of Lagash II (King XII), a God of growth and fertility, while the back of the paper have included a picture of Fort Ukhaydir a Fort archaeological its construction dates back to the Abbasid era forts and defensive unique in a deserted area, such as those constructed in which this fort is located to the south-west of the city of Karbala .. The central bank said: that in the face of the banknote (25) dinars (twenty five dinars) was developed, the image of King Hammurabi receiving the law .. This is the spiritual father of the King humanitarian legislation, as written in the custody of the rules governing the life and transactions in the famous Mselth either the back of the paper have included a picture of a peasant of Iraqi Kurdistan
[Scooter-EG] writing: in line with the best applications and international experiences, he decided to stop the basic parameters of the currency notes of the categories (25000,10000,5000) JD Traded to the road as it is in the new series (25,10,5) dinars to enable the audience with her as a thousand imprinted in his memory. The bank was keen to choose the designs of the coins are the generality and comprehensiveness of significance, and have a positive impact on all the people of Iraq, where he put on the aspects of coins map of Iraq and highlights where the Tigris and the Euphrates, and the center of the map a circular area to install the coin mineral, while the other side of coins have included, first class (2) JD's image (the Monastery of Saint Matthew), a historical site and my soul is located in the north of Iraq, and taken by the Iraqis of different sects and religions shrine to seek blessings and tourism. Included in category (1) BD image and reality are inspired from the displacement of Kurds Faili designed and prep
[Scooter-EG] sorry
[Scooter-EG] just letting everybody read the same thing I'm seeing
[oogie] sure
[Scooter-EG] sooooo
[Scooter-EG] Here we go
[Scooter-EG] I'm not certain if everyone here is aware or not
[Scooter-EG] but if you research
[Scooter-EG] some of the founding documents on this plan
[Scooter-EG] one in particular that stands out is from the State Department
[Scooter-EG] and they show the actual pictures
[Scooter-EG] and from the original 25k note and the dropping of the zeros
[Scooter-EG] to the 25 IQD note
[Scooter-EG] why this is interesting is because
[Scooter-EG] this was in the plan from the beginning
[Scooter-EG] at least from my perspective
[Scooter-EG] also
[Scooter-EG] if you remember from last week
[Scooter-EG] this will be a HYBRID solution
[Scooter-EG] running concurrently with the growth of the economy
[Scooter-EG] now to repeat some of that information
[Scooter-EG] In essence
[Scooter-EG] the country has a CPI
[Scooter-EG] consumer price index
[Scooter-EG] based on standard grocery items and such
[Scooter-EG] they will deploy this new CPI in concurrence with the dropping of the zeros
[Scooter-EG] but at the same time
[Scooter-EG] they will suck in all the larger notes
[Scooter-EG] some will be soiled
[Scooter-EG] and a lot of them will be used for intra bank transactions
[Scooter-EG] the value of the soiled notes will go electronic
[Scooter-EG] now
[Scooter-EG] at the same time
[Scooter-EG] the government of iraq has been stockpiling Billions of dollars
[Scooter-EG] via their budgets since 2006
[Scooter-EG] What they've been doing is recording two sets of books
[Scooter-EG] or budgets
[Scooter-EG] one is in nominal terms
[Scooter-EG] and the other is allocated according to a higher rate
[Scooter-EG] now
[Scooter-EG] imagine this coming to fruition as well
[Scooter-EG] they also have the residual oil funds just sitting there
[Scooter-EG] I know, long winded answer
[Scooter-EG] but it's somewhat important
[Scooter-EG] the residual funds come from their sale of oil from years past
[Scooter-EG] for example
[Scooter-EG] last year their budget allocated approx. $78 a barrel
[Scooter-EG] well oil sold at $90 - $100 a barrel
[Scooter-EG] what happened to the residual funds
[Scooter-EG] well
[Scooter-EG] they go into a separate account
[Scooter-EG] see that budget for 2010 just got ratified by the BSA
[Scooter-EG] Board of Supervisory Audit
[Scooter-EG] so those funds are still in the bank accounts at the US Treasury
[Scooter-EG] now
[Scooter-EG] back to the question
[Scooter-EG] I think
[Scooter-EG] and have always thought
[Scooter-EG] this will be a hybrid solution
[Scooter-EG] which will simultaneosly increase the value of the the dinar
[Scooter-EG] while at the same time remove the zeros
[Scooter-EG] does that mean they will get rid of the thousand series notes
[Scooter-EG] IMO
[Scooter-EG] no
[Scooter-EG] those notes will be valid tender
[Scooter-EG] just like the US did with the 25k note
[Scooter-EG] or their thousand series of notes
[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] long winded answer
[Scooter-EG] next
[oogie] ty Scooter-EG
[Scooter-EG] YW
[Scooter-EG] I hope that helps
[oogie] next

[oogie] 2) BAGHDAD, June 14 (AKnews) - The Iraqi Central Bank (ICB) has set a time limit for all banks in Iraq to increase their capital and reach a minimum requirement of 250bn IQD ($215m), hoping this will improve banking. deputy governor Muzher Mohammed Saleh said: "We asked all banks in Iraq to increase their capital this month to strengthen their dealings and give more loans." The number of banks in Iraq exceeds 50 with more than 800 branches spread across the provinces. This number is still low if compared to the number of the population.Iraq is suffering from a decline in the citizens' share of banking services of up to one bank for 40,000 people. This is a big difference compared to what exists in neighboring countries.
http://www.aknews.com/en ··· /312259/ Hi Scooter.. What is ur opinion of this art on the influx of this huge amount of monies to these banks? It sure seems like they r trying to attrack more customers for loans. The question I have is, why the hurry before the end of June? There are also tariffs coming, July 1st, along with double food prices for Ramadan on an already highly unemployed, mostly poor people? What is ur opinion of the significance of this move by Shabibi, and could it possibly be a hint that there is a value increase to the currency coming soon, as well? ( As we also are seeing many arts still, with talks of international investments and banking) Ty...luckyintx


[Scooter-EG] hmmmm
[Scooter-EG] ok -- that is a great question lucky
[Scooter-EG] Here's what's happening
[Scooter-EG] if you goto the CBI site
[Scooter-EG]
http://cbi.iq/documents/ ··· s.EN.pdf
[Scooter-EG] and when you read this document
[Scooter-EG] What you'll find is that there's a HUGE push for the increase in capital
[Scooter-EG] and what's even more attractive is that when you look deeper into the ordinances
[Scooter-EG] what you'll find is that iraq is trying to attract the "BIG BOY" banks
[Scooter-EG] here's why
[Scooter-EG] they now can loan up to 300% of the banks capital
[Scooter-EG] and that includes the partner's banks
[Scooter-EG] so for example
[Scooter-EG] Bank of America
[Scooter-EG] it's a one Trillion dollar monster
[Scooter-EG] Suisse
[Scooter-EG] Barclays
[Scooter-EG] etc...
[Scooter-EG] Those banks are in the business to do one thing
[Scooter-EG] and that's loan money
[Scooter-EG] and make as many transactions occur as possible
[Scooter-EG] now with that said
[Scooter-EG] take a look at the week ratio of banks
[Scooter-EG] to population in Iraq
[Scooter-EG] when those partner banks come online
[Scooter-EG] inside the country
[Scooter-EG] they will have the needed capitol to finance those loans for the million houses they are intending to build
[Scooter-EG] In essense,
[Scooter-EG] they'll be using other peoples money
[Scooter-EG] at the same time increasing the usage of banks by populace
[Scooter-EG] In terms of the tariffs coming
[Scooter-EG] As I said in the past
[Scooter-EG] I think that's great for accouting reasons
[Scooter-EG] and
[Scooter-EG] for joining the world community
[Scooter-EG] but will have a secondary impact on the the value
[Scooter-EG] increasing[Scooter-EG] at the same time increasing the usage of banks by populace
[Scooter-EG] In terms of the tariffs coming
[Scooter-EG] As I said in the past
[Scooter-EG] I think that's great for accouting reasons
[Scooter-EG] and
[Scooter-EG] for joining the world community
[Scooter-EG] but will have a secondary impact on the the value
[Scooter-EG] increasing
[Scooter-EG] the value will start to truly increase
[Scooter-EG] as they diversify their economy
[Scooter-EG] remember several weeks ago I used the capital markets as an example
[Scooter-EG] Comparing Jordan
[Scooter-EG] whose capital markets run at approx 375% of their annual GDP
[Scooter-EG] to Iraq
[Scooter-EG] 3.5% of their GDP
[Scooter-EG] huge differences
[Scooter-EG] also
[Scooter-EG] you'll see the value start to truly establish itself
[Scooter-EG] when you see their primary bond market moving
[Scooter-EG] they have approximately 108 SOE's they need to privatize
[Scooter-EG] SOE's = State Owned Enterprises
[Scooter-EG] now they have been taking their time
[Scooter-EG] and waiting for the right moment
[Scooter-EG] however
[Scooter-EG] it's an imperitive step that the IMF and World Bank is requiring
[Scooter-EG] as part of these structural changes
[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] long answer again
[Scooter-EG] but
[Scooter-EG] next
[oogie] ok ty

[oogie] 3) From Helios1: Just wondering, if Scooter would address how core inflation is determined and if he has found that the core inflation percentages posted by the CBI to be lacking other essential defining criteria and therefore are not reflecting the accurate core inflation percentages?

[Scooter-EG] Great question
[Scooter-EG] and let me get the definition from the recent financial indicators
[Scooter-EG] here's why this is key
[Scooter-EG] because back in 2006 - 2007
[Scooter-EG] the terror groups were just shredding that economy
[Scooter-EG] and core inflation started to diverge from headline inflation
[Scooter-EG] and nobody understood why
[Scooter-EG] well for one reason
[Scooter-EG] they really didn't do a good job of defining those parameters
[Scooter-EG] because one includes oil consumption and usage in the CPI
[Scooter-EG] and the other indicator doesn't
[Scooter-EG] I don't think the CBI's completely up to date with all their indicators
[Scooter-EG] let me get You a link to the GDDS and Iraq
[Scooter-EG] and that tells you all the parameters
[Scooter-EG] and when you look at them
[Scooter-EG] you'll notice that when compared to US or an advanced economy
[Scooter-EG] they are lacking some serious data
http://dsbb.imf.org/Pages/GDDS/CtyCtgList.aspx?ctycode=IRQ
[Scooter-EG] That link will show you what
[Scooter-EG] the short term priorities are
[Scooter-EG] for the CBI
[Scooter-EG] Just thought that would help
[Scooter-EG] now back to the last part of the question
[Scooter-EG] one of the things that Iraq cannot do ever ever ever again
[Scooter-EG] is loose track of the USD circulation inside the country
[Scooter-EG] because when they do loose control and times become heavilly inflationary
[Scooter-EG] what will the citizens do
[Scooter-EG] to combat inflation
[Scooter-EG] they'll go back to using the USD to purchase all their goods and services
[Scooter-EG] so to answer your question
[Scooter-EG] I think the CBI is lacking some serious indicators
[Scooter-EG] absolutely YEs
[Scooter-EG] However,
[Scooter-EG] they are also undergoing and deploying
[Scooter-EG] some heavy duty transactional systems
[Scooter-EG] that will automatically record much of the needed economic data
[Scooter-EG] that will get them up to speed with the world community
[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] next question

[oogie] 4) from pops5022: What would the results be on the typical person on the streets of Iraq if a RV comes to be at 1 to 1 or higher? How would it affect inflation or would it? Can the country stand a change so dramatic? Would it take away the dependence on using USD.

[Scooter-EG] WOW
[Scooter-EG] great questions
[Scooter-EG] hmmmm
[Scooter-EG] how to answer that one
[Scooter-EG] first let me say this
[Scooter-EG] nobody -- and I mean no one except a handful of people know what's going to happen
[Scooter-EG] with that said
[Scooter-EG] to answer your first part of the question
[Scooter-EG] my answer is
[Scooter-EG] It depends
[Scooter-EG] Here's why I say that
[Scooter-EG] How prepared is the government and businesses for that dramatic shift
[Scooter-EG] transactions
[Scooter-EG] all over the place
[Scooter-EG] the merchants must be prepared for that kind of sudden shift
[Scooter-EG] Now on to Inflation
[Scooter-EG] In my opinion, and my opinion only
[Scooter-EG] If the CPI is in line
[Scooter-EG] and the merchants are as well
[Scooter-EG] it won't have a dramatic shift in inflation
[Scooter-EG] this is why I think it's going to be a concurrently deployed HYBRID solution
[Scooter-EG] and it will be done over a course of 24 - 36 months
[Scooter-EG] sorry
[Scooter-EG] 12 - 36 months
[Scooter-EG] they might make some type of announcement in 2013
[Scooter-EG] but to deploy something that big
[Scooter-EG] will take a lot of coordination and take a longer period to complete
[Scooter-EG] Perhaps I'm incorrect
[Scooter-EG] but that is a great question and thank you pops for asking it
[Scooter-EG] next

[oogie] next question:
[oogie] 5) from lightingcslt: scooter please break this article down for us ty
http://www.bondladyscorner.com/t46162-iraq-moves-banking-and-tax-problems-for-the-us-congress

[Scooter-EG] BAGHDAD / JD / .. Announced that the Finance Committee for its parliamentary transfer of banking and fiscal problems that has plagued Iraq to the U.S. Congress. A member of the Committee and the representative of a coalition of state law Haitham Jubouri's / JD / The "throw the last, which brought together the Commission with a delegation from the U.S. Treasury Department and the U.S. embassy in Baghdad discussed the problems of the banking system and taxation in Iraq, in addition to the multiplicity of revenues and implementation of Almoisma of Iraq." The Jubouri "The delegation, cut us a promise to transfer these problems to the Treasury Committee in Congress, in addition to the U.S. Treasury." "The delegation stressed after the transfer of these problems will determine for us after a common agenda," includes workshops, seminars, and conferences, whether in Washington or Baghdad to develop the work of the Finance Committee of parliament and staff as consultants, as well as creating cadres of full development
[Scooter-EG] of the budget preparation. "And between a member Finance Committee and parliamentary deputy, a coalition of state law "that Iraq needs to workshops and training sessions and meetings continue to take advantage of the experience of U.S. banking and Maya." The decision of the Finance Committee and the representative of the Iraqi List, Ahmed electrodes received on Tuesday (06/05/2012) at the headquarters of the Commission and a delegation from the U.S. Treasury Department and the U.S. embassy in Baghdad. During the meeting, discussion of the general frameworks for financial management and areas of future cooperation between the parties. / Finished / Nazik Mohammed

[Scooter-EG] ok -- give me a second
[Scooter-EG] What ?
[oogie] no problem scooter
[Scooter-EG] they aer going to transfer their problems to US congress
[Scooter-EG] How in the world will they do that
[Scooter-EG] hmmmm let me read the rest
[Scooter-EG] hmmmmm
[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] Well let me tell you all this
[Scooter-EG] US AID
[Scooter-EG] they currently have been working in conjunction with the Iraqi Finance committee and CBI
[Scooter-EG] for the last 9 years
[Scooter-EG] it was one of the first things they did
[Scooter-EG] it's called the Tijara project
[Scooter-EG]
https://tijara-iraq.com/
[Scooter-EG] In essense
[Scooter-EG] the US has been writing their business cases
[Scooter-EG] for years
[Scooter-EG] so for them to say they are going to parlay all their problems to us
[Scooter-EG] well
[Scooter-EG] they need to take the responsibility
[Scooter-EG] and do the rest on their own
[Scooter-EG] perhaps I'm wrong
[Scooter-EG] but the need to show they can accomplish some basic task on their own
[Scooter-EG] without help
[Scooter-EG] just my opinion
[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] next
[oogie] ok ty

[oogie] 6) from tlm724: Scooter, is there a "requirement" for Iraq to have a convertible currency prior to being released from chapter 7 by UNSC ? Would you also be kind enough to explain to us what a convertible currency is ? Thank you

[Scooter-EG] hmmmm
[Scooter-EG] well let me ask you this question
[Scooter-EG] are they making trades today with the IQD
[Scooter-EG] I mean
[Scooter-EG] transactions from one bank to another
[Scooter-EG] and the answer
[Scooter-EG] is Yes
[Scooter-EG] they are
[Scooter-EG] they are purchasing products right now using IQD with neighbors
[Scooter-EG] now
[Scooter-EG] with that said
[Scooter-EG] it's a bit difficult when you are using the same tools that the rest of the world is using
[Scooter-EG] so to say a convertible currency
[Scooter-EG] hmmmm
[Scooter-EG] I can convert mine right now
[Scooter-EG] however
[Scooter-EG] it's they aren't ready for the world stage -- in my opinion
[Scooter-EG] to answer the other
[Scooter-EG] part of that question
[Scooter-EG] yes
[Scooter-EG] it's a requirement to have a currency which is convertible
[Scooter-EG] and a lot of that is based on the faith and belief that currency holds value
[Scooter-EG] here's an example
[Scooter-EG] during the days of Saddam
[Scooter-EG] and the US were going at it
[Scooter-EG] the Kurds were using Swiss Dinar notes
[Scooter-EG] for their trading
[Scooter-EG] now
[Scooter-EG] here's the phenomena
[Scooter-EG] even though that currency wasn't backed by any government at the time
[Scooter-EG] the currencies value increased
[Scooter-EG] Why did that occur
[Scooter-EG] because of simple faith and belief that that note held a value
[Scooter-EG] that story was written and documented by the BIS
[Scooter-EG] Bank of International Settlement
[Scooter-EG] That is the Central Bank of all Central Banks worldwide
[Scooter-EG] nevertheless
[Scooter-EG] I think it's a good example
[Scooter-EG] ok -- last question

[oogie] 7) another from helios1 : Does Iraq need to have the valuation of their money changed/increased prior to accession to the WTO? If so, does this also mean that they would need to RV their money regardless of what we've all heard rumored re the requirements for them to be out of Ch 7 before they may RV (can RV without release from Ch 7)?

[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] thanks for the question helios1
[Scooter-EG] because that's another good one
[Scooter-EG] Iraq can determine the value of their currency to whatever value they want'
[Scooter-EG] and
[Scooter-EG] at anytime
[Scooter-EG] the IMF may not approve
[Scooter-EG] the world bank may not approve
[Scooter-EG] but they can assign a value if they choose
[Scooter-EG] now
[Scooter-EG] with that said
[Scooter-EG] NO
[Scooter-EG] Iraq doesn't need to RV their currency in order to join the WTO
[Scooter-EG] What they do need to occur in order to play on the world stage is
[Scooter-EG] to get out from under the Chpt 7 protection
[Scooter-EG] IMO
[Scooter-EG] CHPT 7 will need to be completetly removed before joining the WTO -- IMO
[Scooter-EG] I wouldn't listen to any rumors
[Scooter-EG] I haven't found one that's been correct
[Scooter-EG] ok
[Scooter-EG] oogie
[oogie] wow ty scooter-eg
[Scooter-EG] Thank you so much
[Scooter-EG] and I apologize for the lateness
[oogie] no problem scooter
[player46] Scooter-EG .. TY for your time once again..
[Scooter-EG] I sincerely hope these discussions help everybody
[oogie] we really appreciate your time
[DogzNova] great way to end it.. .. No rumors



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PostSubject: SCOOTER !!   Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:28 am

I HOPE EVERYONE ENJOYS THIS; I POSTED SCOOTER'S LAST CHAT ON ANOTHER SITE, AND WAS TOLD HE WAS A GRU!!! I CONSIDER SCOOTER A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON, FOREX, INVESTOR,AND HE NEVER GIVES OUT RUMORS !! JUST MY THOUGHTS FROM ACROSS THE POND !!
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PostSubject: Re: SCOOTER ANSWERS QUESTIONS ON THE BONDLADY'S SITE !!   Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:05 am

Yea, well some people on that other site remind me of Eyore ... they have the gift of seeing the bad in most everything .... Just sayin ...


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PostSubject: Re: SCOOTER ANSWERS QUESTIONS ON THE BONDLADY'S SITE !!   Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:32 am

Just Da Truth wrote:
I HOPE EVERYONE ENJOYS THIS; I POSTED SCOOTER'S LAST CHAT ON ANOTHER SITE, AND WAS TOLD HE WAS A GRU!!! I CONSIDER SCOOTER A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON, FOREX, INVESTOR,AND HE NEVER GIVES OUT RUMORS !! JUST MY THOUGHTS FROM ACROSS THE POND !!

THANK YOU for that. Scooter seems to know what he is talking about...COME RV :cheers:
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PostSubject: Re: SCOOTER ANSWERS QUESTIONS ON THE BONDLADY'S SITE !!   Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:57 am

Thanks for sharing Just Da Truth!!!! Welcome back! It has been awhile!

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Dinar Daily :: DINAR/IRAQ -- NEWS -- GURUS and DISCUSSIONS :: DINAR/IRAQ QUESTIONS and DISCUSSIONS-
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